Official Tesla Model 3 thread

One "delivery" so far.

Apparently, a Tesla is designated as a production vehicle, once Elon Musk has his.

So, how long do you think it will be before those other than TSLA insiders or employees are allowed to buy 3s?

How long before TSLA even releases the model 3 specifications and pricing?

Does Tesla's version of a 'production' car meet muster?

OTHER AUTOMAKERS WOULD CALL THESE MODEL 3'S PRE-PRODUCTION CARS BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF TESTING INVOLVED


Ready or not, the Tesla Model 3 is on its way. Tesla head Elon Musk says the first production Model 3 is built and worthy of the road.

This “production” car Musk revealed with a tweet on Saturday is still full of mystery, though: We have no full official spec sheet, interior photos or pricing information beyond the $35,000 starting MSRP. For a car going into consumers’ homes, this is abnormal. However, Tesla isn’t a normal car company, so we’ve come to expect these kinds of things from them.

That said, there are legitimate questions as to the level of testing and preproduction work done on the Model 3...

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http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/first-production-tesla-model-3-production-car

Tesla Model 3's margin for error? Zero

Tesla has painted itself into a corner with the new Model 3 sedan, the company's first high-volume vehicle. Without a nationwide dealer network, the margin for errors in product development, engineering and manufacturing is zero or close to it.

While Tesla has pioneered over-the-air fixes for software glitches and to update the Model S and Model X, that strategy isn't going to work if the Model 3 leaves the plant with parts that don't fit properly or that break.

With the low-volume Model S and Model X, Tesla sends a truck to collect vehicles that need repairs when the customer is not close to a service center. That plan is impractical for the Model 3, which starts at about $35,000 and has a backlog of at least 325,000 orders. Tesla hopes to be producing 1 million cars a year by 2020.

While the Model 3 has had a typical product development cycle, engineering and manufacturing details about the sedan remain sparse. But the Model 3 launch likely will be among the most scrutinized of any in recent auto industry history.

Looking at the Model 3 from a manufacturing standpoint, nothing can go wrong without costing Tesla immense amounts of cash to rectify...

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http://www.autonews.com/article/20170711/BLOG06/170719915/tesla-model-3s-margin-for-error-zero

They've already announced they will have an "event" at the end of the month where they will deliver the first customer cars. Keep calm guys.

palmermd said:

They've already announced they will have an "event" at the end of the month where they will deliver the first customer cars. Keep calm guys.

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Question is, which of those are "real" customers (if any) vs. Tesla and SpaceX employees.

I haven't kept up with the news but it sounds like http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-deliveries-employees-first/ is (mostly?) right in terms of rollout plans.

The recent interior shots of a Model 3 have produce a bit of angst over at TMC, since the 3 apparently includes door-map and seat-back pockets, a long-time wishlist item on the Model S.





Of course the trolls suggest this means the 3 won't include Nav on the console, thus requiring the pockets for paper maps. :lol:

jlv said:

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Display (screen) seems a little on the small size, but probably 4K with integrated Netflix & Roku
when in the autopilot mode, right?

Designed (display) with occupant safety foremost?

Title: Tesla Model 3 To Come With 48-Amp Onboard Charger
http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-to-come-with-48-amp-onboard-charger/

About 29 miles added ever hour. About 11.5 kW (example: 29*8hr=232 miles)

Aside: Bolt 32-amps (7.7 kW) http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-to-come-with-48-amp-onboard-charger/

scottf200 said:

Title: Tesla Model 3 To Come With 48-Amp Onboard Charger

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Of course, that's the exact same OBC that comes by default on the Model S 75. But the article's author seems to want to add some FUD, since he doesn't point that out and instead focuses that it's less than what comes on the Model S 100, which has the higher capacity dual charger by default.

cwerdna said:

palmermd said:

They've already announced they will have an "event" at the end of the month where they will deliver the first customer cars. Keep calm guys.

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Question is, which of those are "real" customers (if any) vs. Tesla and SpaceX employees.

I haven't kept up with the news but it sounds like http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-deliveries-employees-first/ is (mostly?) right in terms of rollout plans.

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Yes, will be rolled out to Tesla & SpaceX employees first. This has always been part of their plan. We've known this since before March '16 when they first started accepting reservations, and is a prudent step in allowing for a an accelerated roll out.

I'm really unsure what the big deal here is. It seems to me like the point is trying to be made that really these aren't production cars because they are going personally to Elon, or board members, or employees, or next, only to people in CA. Fine, whatever...by the time we get to October (really just over 2 months away at this point), and certainly by November, I would expect the employee backlog to be met and deliveries being made to non-employees.

So really, what's the big deal? Is the complaint that Tesla shouldn't be allowed to toot its own horn when it delivers its first vehicle that came off the same production line that will be used for mass production? You can't wait another 3 months for that to start happening? I mean if you would ask anyone, even Elon Musk, in March '16 when they thought production cars would start rolling off the line you'd probably hear early 2018 more often than late 2017. So yeah, even true volume deliveries by October or November of '17 is an amazing feat.

Oh, and by the way, it cuts both ways. The Tesla fanboys themselves said the same thing about the Bolt when it first started rolling out, calling it a compliance car because it was only available in CA and OR at first. And as many of us old timers are aware, the same thing could be said about the original LEAF and Volt in 2010/11. It was a LONG wait for those LEAFs to finally arrive on the east coast.

I'm sorry, but I just don't get all the negativity from some folks, particularly on a pro-EV site like this. Even if you are a die-hard Nissan fan, does that mean you have to knock everything Tesla? No! You should be rooting for all EVs and particularly Tesla because they are driving the competition that hopefully will result in Nissan releasing a LEAF 2.0 (and hopefully other models) that will meet the needs of more and more drivers.

jlv said:

scottf200 said:

Title: Tesla Model 3 To Come With 48-Amp Onboard Charger

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Of course, that's the exact same OBC that comes by default on the Model S 75. But the article's author seems to want to add some FUD, since he doesn't point that out and instead focuses that it's less than what comes on the Model S 100, which has the higher capacity dual charger by default.

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I didn't read it as negatively as you did. That author seems to just like to crank out articles and some are nothing more than the source that he obtained the information from. He doesn't add any value / insight / organized tables or comparisons.

AFAIK, there are no longer 'dual chargers' it is a single 48a or 72a OBC. There used to be 40a or dual 40a for 80a ... again AFAIK.

Wonder if TSLA will reveal data from the “conditional fuel economy label” before or by tomorrow night?

And if so, will it be only for the optional-large-battery RWD versions it has said will be "delivered" tomorrow night, or show data for the entire model 3 range?

Tesla's Official Model 3 EPA Efficiency Data Will Be One Month Late

Tesla will launch its Model 3 on Friday, July 28th without official EPA energy efficiency data.

Like many aspects of Telsa's vehicle launches, the energy efficiency data is an afterthought to be handled when time permits, rather before the cars start to be sold to private owners.

No Official Window Sticker For Model 3

In the U.S., every car sold must have a Monroney sticker affixed to its side window by law. The is sticker has evolved over the years, but now contains primarily fuel economy information (in the largest font on the sticker), energy (or fuel) costs in the second largest font size, crash test data from NHTSA, manufacturing location and parts origin by percentage, and, of course, the individual vehicle's MSRP and standard and optional content in the smallest font. Tesla will be providing vehicles to consumers without official data...

We asked the folks at http://www.fueleconomy.gov if the information was available and discovered it was not. Our inquiry was timely. Just yesterday, July 26th, 2017, http://www.fueleconomy.gov received an e-mail from the EPA informing the group that the data would be a month late and that official sales of the Model 3 would start on July 28th (not what you may have otherwise heard reported). Instead of an official Monroney sticker, the EPA will allow Tesla to ship a limited number of vehicles (possibly less than 100 in total) with “conditional fuel economy label”. http://WWW.fueleconomy.gov explained to us that, "This provision in EPA regulations allows manufacturers to introduce a model based on manufacturer’s test data, while the test vehicle is being confirmatory tested at EPA." The group says that EPA won't be sending any information to http://www.fueleconomy.gov until the data is finalized, which is estimated to take another month...

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https://www.torquenews.com/1083/teslas-official-model-3-epa-data-will-be-one-month-late

And many others seem to be hoping for some relief tomorrow night from model 3 anxiety:

Tesla Buyers Antsy for Model 3 Keys Months After $1,000 Deposit

Blind Deposits

Tesla reported last spring that 373,000 people had placed deposits for the Model 3 and hasn’t given updated reservation figures since. Those who have put down deposits don’t know where they fall in the wait list or what month or year their new cars will be available. A Tesla spokesperson said more details will be released Friday and declined to comment further.

The lack of information received from Tesla “makes me 100 percent more nervous,” said Patrick Herrity, a 34-year-old business consultant in Virginia who made his Model 3 reservation online. He said he understands the company is being secretive to ward off competitors but hopes this week’s event will shed more light on his next ride...

Other early Model 3 enthusiasts have already backed out. Cathy Gilabert, a 35-year-old veterinarian in Nevada, signed up for the newest Tesla in April 2016 before canceling six months ago upon realizing she didn’t like the car’s dashboard layout or how low to the ground it was. Already a Model S owner, she has her eye on a Model X for its extra room.

David Ventimiglia said he canceled his reservation not because of the car but due to Musk. The 45-year-old software engineer in San Francisco said he was bothered by the CEO’s participation on two of Donald Trump’s advisory councils...

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/tesla-buyers-antsy-for-model-3-keys-months-after-1-000-deposit

edatoakrun said:

Wonder if TSLA will reveal data from the “conditional fuel economy label” before or by tomorrow night?

And if so, will it be only for the optional-large-battery RWD versions it has said will be "delivered" tomorrow night, or show data for the entire model 3 range?

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Did you not read the article you quoted? I think it pretty clearly said that the figures would not be released for another month, after the first 100 or so deliveries.

Which frankly probably doesn't affect anyone actually reading this (unless there just so happens to be a lucky Tesla employee at the head of the line on here--but somehow I don't think they are going to be all that concerned with the lack of a Moroney sticker anyway.

edatoakrun said:

And many others seem to be hoping for some relief tomorrow night from model 3 anxiety:

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I would certainly characterize deposit-holders as being eager for more details coming out tomorrow or in the coming weeks. I think anxiety is probably somewhat of a misnomer. Of the 3 examples cited, one guy is nervous because Tesla hasn't updated their reservation numbers? Well I feel bad for him, but it doesn't seem like a rational thing to get worried about as a reservation holder. The only possible result for him is that he moves up in line if people canceled ahead of him. Otherwise it's more of a concern for Tesla investors, not Model 3 reservation holders. The second person already canceled 6 months ago, and the third canceled his reservation for reasons not even related to the handover event (and ironically since Musk pulled out of his dealings with Trump, I wonder if that changed his mind--too late of course--about whether to hold a reservation). To be fair if you're going to single out reasons why people have CANCELED their reservations, I think you have to consider the other 350,000+ (or whatever the number actually is) that RESERVED their Model 3's and still hold those reservations. I certainly don't doubt that people have or will drop their reservations as they learn more about the car. Maybe they don't like the screen, or the dashboard, or the option pricing isn't what they thought it would be, or they just put down their $1000 to hold a spot in line without knowing whether they'd like the final result or not (the first 125K or so were put down COMPLETELY sight unseen!) But is it fair to single out cancellations without acknowledging everyone that is keeping their reservations? Particularly since the number of reservations took EVERYONE (even Musk) by surprise?

It's a $1000 refundable deposit; it's not like we had to sign over our firstborn child to Tesla! :lol:

Based on what's been revealed to date, as long as the larger battery gives a range that's not too far below 300 miles when new, I think we'll be pleased. We'll have to wait an indeterminate amount of time, but that's been par for the course with new Tesla models!

Also, I for one am very grateful that Musk seemed to do his best to engage with Trump and promote rational thinking. At the same time, I'm happy that he walked away following Trump's nonsensical decision to abandon the Paris Agreement. Surely plenty of other Model 3 reservation holders feel the same way.

lpickup said:

Did you not read the article you quoted? I think it pretty clearly said that the figures would not be released for another month, after the first 100 or so deliveries.

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I did; now your turn.

The EPA plans to confirm the Model 3 manufacturer numbers so a temp window sticker will be on the first cars from tomorrow. IIRC the EPA only tests around 10% of new cars, but in this case the EPA is taking the unusual step of notifying them ahead of time that they plan to confirm the Tesla provided ratings.

abasile said:

It's a $1000 refundable deposit; it's not like we had to sign over our firstborn child to Tesla! :lol:

Based on what's been revealed to date, as long as the larger battery gives a range that's not too far below 300 miles when new, I think we'll be pleased. We'll have to wait an indeterminate amount of time, but that's been par for the course with new Tesla models!

Also, I for one am very grateful that Musk seemed to do his best to engage with Trump and promote rational thinking. At the same time, I'm happy that he walked away following Trump's nonsensical decision to abandon the Paris Agreement. Surely plenty of other Model 3 reservation holders feel the same way.

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I do, for sure. The person who cancelled a reservation due to Elon's participation in the Gov council must be one of about ... three.

SageBrush said:

lpickup said:

Did you not read the article you quoted? I think it pretty clearly said that the figures would not be released for another month, after the first 100 or so deliveries.

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I did; now your turn.

The EPA plans to confirm the Model 3 manufacturer numbers so a temp window sticker will be on the first cars from tomorrow. IIRC the EPA only tests around 10% of new cars, but in this case the EPA is taking the unusual step of notifying them ahead of time that they plan to confirm the Tesla provided ratings.

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Well I definitely didn't read it that way. It sounds to me like the conditional sticker will be based on Tesla's own test results and that the EPA will confirm/finalize the results in about a month's time.

But either way, I think it's a giant don't care for the majority of reservation holders and readers here.

The folks who go out of their way to just toss out posts with "news" on Tesla that appears to have a negative slant probably need to get beyond the fact that Tesla is going to do things their own way, and usually for good reason. They are not an established car company that can afford to (or even NEEDS to) build up an inventory of 1000's of cars and distribute to dealers' lots before the first car is sold. Tesla is far more nimble than that and if the way they want to operate is to start with 30 cars, then 100, then 1000 and roll them out to employees first, well that's fine with me. Even if it does take another 3-4 months to start rolling these out to non-Tesla employees (with all the official Moroney stickers and price lists, etc. all well documented), they've still beat the expectations I had when I put my deposit down, which was that it would probably be 1-2Q 2018 before we saw the car. Now that Musk has basically achieved his aggressive goal of July 2017 (even if it is a "soft" launch that doesn't line up with people's general expectation of how a launch should happen), it seems that the naysayers are having to find new ways to cast doubt on Tesla.

lpickup said:

But either way, I think it's a giant don't care for the majority of reservation holders and readers here.

.

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yep. march 31 2016 reservation holder here...I don't care!

lpickup said:

Well I definitely didn't read it that way. It sounds to me like the conditional sticker will be based on Tesla's own test results and that the EPA will confirm/finalize the results in about a month's

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This is right. The only difference here is that most cars only have the manufacturer testing that the EPA accepts without further investigation. I thought you were saying that fuel economy numbers will not be available today. That is not the case.

You can count on one hand the numbers of times EPA has revised manufacturer results downward (hello, Ford and Hyundai.)
This all means that the EPA confirmatory testing is the least interesting news surrounding Tesla since the 3/2016 Model 3 reveal, unless you think Tesla tried to cheat on the fuel economy sticker. As an aside, it just occurred to me that Tesla can probably run the EPA tests programatically -- no human driver required. After all, both brakes and acceleration are electronic.

Go Tesla!

There is almost nothing on the Monroney sticker for the Model 3 that I would be interested in anyway, except range.

MPGe efficiency, at the high efficiency levels of EVs, is going to vary widely depending on driving style and local terrain, so it's almost meaningless unless using it to compare to competition (something that the Model 3 doesn't really have--Bolt comes close, but without true 100+kW charging and a reliable nationwide network, for me anyway, it doesn't compare. Annual fuel costs, savings, etc? Again, very dependent on my own situation and easy enough to work out. I mean I guess I could compare it to my LEAF's efficiency/costs, but it's not going to drive a buying decision one way or another. So yeah, it all comes down to the range figure for me, even though for the same reasons of MPGe this will obviously vary (since it is based on the MPGe value anyway!) in my own case. And I do accept that the results are not necessarily final, but I expect them to be close enough to be within the noise.

lpickup said:

it seems that the naysayers are having to find new ways to cast doubt on Tesla.

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Of course, this is nothing new.

lpickup said:

..I'm really unsure what the big deal here is. It seems to me like the point is trying to be made that really these aren't production cars because they are going personally to Elon, or board members, or employees, or next, only to people in CA. Fine, whatever...

So really, what's the big deal?...

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Well, part of the big deal for TSLA is that the CARB ZEV credits for each 3 it sells in CA may initially have a market value of close to $20,000, bringing the total of government subsidies for each 3 it sells in CA close to the stated list price of ~$35,000.

Of course, if TSLA ever sells close to the number of 3s it has claimed it plans to, the price per credit will decline precipitously, but in the meantime the ZEV credit revenues it receives by counting the trickle of 3 test models it provides to employees as sales will pad the earnings statements (reduce the losses).

Speaking of losses, I doubt the timing of tonights announcement is unrelated to the expected bad news (another large quarterly loss, of close to $300 million..."adjusted") TSLA will have to report in a few days:

Tesla earnings: Will Model 3 live up to the hype?

What quarterly losses? Wall Street to zero in on production timeline

Tesla Inc. is scheduled to report second-quarter results after the market close on Aug. 2.

Wall Street expects another loss for Silicon Valley company, but that is unlikely to matter much. The real burning questions are the ones about the Model 3.

That’s the mass-market sedan at the center of Tesla’s expansion plans, a $35,000 all-electric car the company hopes will smooth its path to becoming a larger car maker.

Tesla has said it would deliver the first handful of Model 3 sedans in July, and Chief Executive Elon Musk confirmed that timeline earlier this month. With a few days remaining in the month, and a stock that has wobbled in recent weeks, all eyes will be on the Model 3.

Here’s what to expect:

Earnings: Analysts surveyed by FactSet expect Tesla to report a loss of $2.38 a share in the second quarter, which would compare with a loss of $2.09 a share in the second quarter of 2016. The company is expected to report an adjusted loss of $1.85 a share in the quarter.

Estimize, a crowdsourcing platform that gathers estimates from sell-side and buy-side analysts as well fund managers, executives, academics, and others, has a consensus per-share loss of $1.78 for Tesla, based on 128 estimates...

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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-earnings-will-model-3-live-up-to-the-hype-2017-07-27