Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Please stop posting similar or the same info from multiple sources. Your "spamming like" techniques and other actions have already earned you two warmings recently. You are free to post your opinions, links and other "facts" all you like but if you continue to creep toward acting like an astroturfer, etc you are likely going to get warned a third time.

lorenfb said:

Another "read" on what Sandy Munro said about the M3 teardown:

Munro praised the Model 3’s driving performance, suspension, skateboard chassis, battery pack, styling, and electronics. However, he lamented finding panel gaps wide enough to stick his finger in, and a noise insulating panel inside the door that was installed backwards. His comparison was brutal: the Model 3 is built “like a KIA in the 90s”.

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Despite these harsh words, on balance Sandy Munro’s comments were overwhelmingly positive. He didn’t pull any punches when it came to the egregious build quality problems he encountered. He criticized Tesla for (in his eyes) ignoring auto industry best practices. He was baffled by some design decisions. He even poked fun at Tesla fans, and read some foolish comments from the Tesla forum.

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I would point out that it’s not too late for Tesla to improve its build quality. Munro’s hunch is that the build quality issues result from a lack of training for workers on the factory floor. That is something Tesla can fix. I think Tesla will fix it, and then mop the floor with everybody.

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Discussion of Tesla’s use of robots is confused, in the same way that people often confuse Autopilot and full self-driving. People confuse the future end goal of full automation with the near-term plan for partial automation.
All factories involve some mix of automation and human labour. Factories can, in theory, be incrementally more automated until the point where no humans are working directly on the assembly line, instead tending to the machines. Let’s call that “full automation”, even though human labour is still required. Partial automation is anything less than that.

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https://seekingalpha.com/article/4164835-auto-industry-veteran-ignore-tesla-model-3-peril?auth_param=1adagi:1ddrtft:48224b1ccf612ee206f2e6d7a4814f99&uprof=44&dr=1

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The Bloomberg has now dropped back to 2556 Model 3s per week.

edatoakrun said:

Intentionally or not, it now looks like TSLA spoofed the BB model which, no longer shows an estimate of 3k weekly production.

...as of this moment, our estimated weekly production has fallen back down to 2,866 and production is now expected to continue to step down over the next three weeks. We've made no changes to the model, so what gives?

The revisions are almost entirely due to new VINs being reported to Bloomberg (Method 2). In early April those numbers jumped by almost 4,000 VINs in a single week, producing a noticeable gap in the dataset. It's not clear what caused the jump, whether Tesla for some reason temporarily skipped over a chunk of VINs or if it was just an artifact of how new customers reported their vehicles to Bloomberg during the surge. Regardless, that portion of our model responded as if a major new surge was underway.

But our model is built to continually adjust its estimates as we receive new data, and the most recent VINs reported to Bloomberg initiated such a correction. Those numbers should continue to revise downward until they reach Tesla's new equilibirum, wherever that may be...

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https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

RegGuheert said:

Bloomberg estimates that Model 3 production is now above 3,000 vehicles per week.

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RegGuheert said:

The Bloomberg has now dropped back to 2556 Model 3s per week.

edatoakrun said:

Intentionally or not, it now looks like TSLA spoofed the BB model which, no longer shows an estimate of 3k weekly production...

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Actually (according to Musk) model 3 production peaked at a rate far lower than that estimate, just before shutting down:

Elon Musk

First, congratulations are in order! We have now completed our third full week of producing over 2000 Model 3 vehicles. The first week was 2020, the second was 2070 and we just completed 2250 last week...

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https://electrek.co/2018/04/17/tesla-model-3-production-goal-6000-units-per-week/

EVDRIVER said:

Please stop posting similar or the same info from multiple sources. Your "spamming like" techniques and other actions have already earned you two warmings recently. You are free to post your opinions, links and other "facts" all you like but if you continue to creep toward acting like an astroturfer, etc you are likely going to get warned a third time.

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You have become a MNL forum moderator, right? MNL is now controlled by Tesla shills? Been accessing info from member's accounts?
So possibly it was you who modified one of my posts, too?

ah yes, ye old "shill o Tesla" label. be gone with you. and done.

go play in traffic or something. it just gets old. give up and the rest of MNL will be sooooo much better off.

finman100 said:

ah yes, ye old "shill o Tesla" label. be gone with you. and done.

go play in traffic or something. it just gets old. give up and the rest of MNL will be sooooo much better off.

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And what insightful info have you posted/contributed on/to the MNL forum since 2012?

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Please stop posting similar or the same info from multiple sources. Your "spamming like" techniques and other actions have already earned you two warmings recently. You are free to post your opinions, links and other "facts" all you like but if you continue to creep toward acting like an astroturfer, etc you are likely going to get warned a third time.

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You have become a MNL forum moderator, right? MNL is now controlled by Tesla shills? Been accessing info from member's accounts?
So possibly it was you who modified one of my posts, too?

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I have been a mod since about 2 weeks after the forum launched in 2011. I don't access member accounts nor can I. I also have never officially warned you, that was done by other mods not me nor would I do that ever as I believe it would not be objective. I have also not requested a mod to do this or voiced my opinion to other mods on this specific matter ever. The irony is I would likely be the person to stand up for your right to express your views as I have done in the past for many on this forum even if I disagreed with them. I have never banned anyone on this site except actual spam bots. So I can assure you if you are banned from this site it won't be me doing this it will be purely on your own accord, my statement earlier was giving you a heads up which likely was more to your benefit. Your tendency to dump information here in the manner you do is very spam like. Your are entitled to your opinions as everyone else is no matter how extreme. However I get many complaints about your posting here and it's getting a bit tiresome.

PS- I have never modified your post or any other post on this forum EVER. If your posts have been modified please send me a PM and I will look into that. If any post is modified by a mod in an any way that would be completely unacceptable IMO and I would not blame you for being upset. The only exception to this would be moving posts to other appropriate threads, etc but never modifying the content other than removing anything that violates forum rules which usually is an entire post. Please do not hesitate to address this this concern and I will do my best to resolve that issue or pass it on to someone that can.

EVDRIVER said:

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Please stop posting similar or the same info from multiple sources. Your "spamming like" techniques and other actions have already earned you two warmings recently. You are free to post your opinions, links and other "facts" all you like but if you continue to creep toward acting like an astroturfer, etc you are likely going to get warned a third time.

Click to expand...

You have become a MNL forum moderator, right? MNL is now controlled by Tesla shills? Been accessing info from member's accounts?
So possibly it was you who modified one of my posts, too?

Click to expand...

I have been a mod since about 2 weeks after the forum launched in 2011. I don't access member accounts nor can I. I also have never officially warned you, that was done by other mods not me nor would I do that ever as I believe it would not be objective. I have also not requested a mod to do this or voiced my opinion to other mods on this specific matter ever. The irony is I would likely be the person to stand up for your right to express your views as I have done in the past for many on this forum even if I disagreed with them. I have never banned anyone on this site except actual spam bots. So I can assure you if you are banned from this site it won't be me doing this it will be purely on your own accord, my statement earlier was giving you a heads up which likely was more to your benefit. Your tendency to dump information here in the manner you do is very spam like. Your are entitled to your opinions as everyone else is no matter how extreme. However I get many complaints about your posting here and it's getting a bit tiresome.

PS- I have never modified your post or any other post on this forum EVER. If your posts have been modified please send me a PM and I will look into that. If any post is modified by a mod in an any way that would be completely unacceptable IMO and I would not blame you for being upset. The only exception to this would be moving posts to other appropriate threads, etc but never modifying the content other than removing anything that violates forum rules which usually is an entire post. Please do not hesitate to address this if you still have this concern and I will do my best to resolve that issue.

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So you're a MNL mod who posts ad hominem attacks (exemplary), i.e. haven't seen that before on any forum. O.K., so any "negative"
post about Tesla is to be considered spam, right? With regard to the Munro tear-down report, most with any reading comprehension
ability would have found that report an overall positive report. So MNL members should not highlight the negatives of Tesla, even
if a report is basically positive. So much for an unbiased forum. Incredible!

Ad hominem attacks are not exclusively reserved for you to use or other members nor is your opinion or mine. Be careful how you pint fingers because you have been called out that before by others as well. Yes that report was mostly positive but we both know that's not the point nor was that your goal. I have no loyalty to Tesla or any other EV company and if I was ever an EV "fanboy" I would say that it was for the LEAF. If you feel you are not treated fairly under the forum rules please let me know and I will be the first to argue on your behalf I can assure you. I will admit you and Ed are the first people I have ever called a troll on this forum. Not the best as it has negative connotations, the implication is one of spamming. If that offended you I apologize but I still reserve the right to express my opinions as do others sans specific terminology. You are also allowed to point out anything you want negative or otherwise but we also know that is not the point because no one has stopped you nor will they.

@Lorenfb,

You accused @EVdriver of changing your post. You were wrong
You accused EVdriver of giving you warnings. You were wrong
You accused EVdriver of accessing your personal information. You were wrong.

And now, rather than apologizing and taking a step back you continue other attacks.

SageBrush said:

@Lorenfb,

You accused @EVdriver of changing your post. You were wrong
You accused EVdriver of giving you warnings. You were wrong
You accused EVdriver of accessing your personal information. You were wrong.

And now, rather than apologizing and taking a step back you continue other attacks.

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Sorry Lorenfb, but that's what I'm seeing as well.

SageBrush said:

@Lorenfb,

You accused @EVdriver of changing your post. You were wrong
You accused EVdriver of giving you warnings. You were wrong
You accused EVdriver of accessing your personal information. You were wrong.

And now, rather than apologizing and taking a step back you continue other attacks.

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Holier-than-thou! And you speak about attacking members, please.

Re-read my post. Here's a portion;

Been accessing info from member's accounts?
So possibly it was you who modified one of my posts, too?

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There's a difference between an accusation and a question. And the complete post;

You have become a MNL forum moderator, right? MNL is now controlled by Tesla shills? Been accessing info from member's accounts?
So possibly it was you who modified one of my posts, too?

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Sorry the Tesla fanboys object to expressions of reality about Tesla, i.e. might affect the lemmings.

OT: Rather than people arguing for banning someone whose opinions they happen to strongly disagree with (as opposed to ad hominem attacks, which are against forum rules), the simplest answer is to either physically ignore/not respond to such posts, or take advantage of the 'Foes' feature accessible via a button on your user control panel, which will prevent you from seeing posts from any members you add to that list.

Other than that, I'm with EVDRIVER - no one should ever be prevented from expressing their opinion or arguing against someone else's, lest MNL or any other discussion forum just become another echo chamber. We get quite enough 'preaching to the choir' in our current political discourse, and I'm in favor of the most vigorous possible discussion of dissenting opinions, provided it's done respectfully and isn't allowed to degenerate into nothing more than personal insults. It has often so degenerated at MNL, and I believe the mods should curtail such activity a lot faster than they often have, but that's just my personal opinion. Depending on how energetic I'm feeling I may or may not report such posts. I don't think I've bothered to in this topic, at least not anytime recently.

I find most of Ed's and Loren's posts re Tesla's problems repetitive and adding little new, and in any case nothing said here will determine whether Tesla fixes their problems, survives, gets bought out etc., so I consider the discussion essentially sterile. But then they or anyone else might say the same about my own hobby horses, so I tend to skim their posts and glean whatever useful info they might contain while ignoring the rest, as we already know their personal opinions/biases on the matter. And despite having been a member here going on 7 years, I've only ever considered putting two posters in my 'foes' list for the reason that their posts were so devoid of useful content they weren't worth the time it took to read them. In neither case did I ultimately do so, as they increased the ratio of useful info in their posts.

can't we all just get along?

If you have hard data to support your claim, post it. If you post your opinions, remember what they say about opinions.

goldbrick said:

can't we all just get along?

If you have hard data to support your claim, post it. If you post your opinions, remember what they say about opinions.

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Opinions are like ____ , everybody has one?

It's unfortunate that this thread has devolved to this, my apology for that contribution. But I'm disappointed to learn that a MNL moderator,
unknown to some, used ad hominems in the past to denigrate MNL members on occasion when their posted issues were in disagreement
with his. That's really sad, especially from a moderator. At least some have gained insight from this revelation, i.e. when considering
posting a contrarian view. Furthermore, this revelation has provided insight into how some of the "off-the-wall-comments" in some thread
responses could have been obtained.

lorenfb said:

It's unfortunate that this thread has devolved to this, my apology for that contribution. But I'm disappointed to learn that a MNL moderator,
unknown to some, used ad hominems in the past to denigrate MNL members on occasion when their posted issues were in disagreement
with his. That's really sad, especially from a moderator. At least some have gained insight from this revelation, i.e. when considering
posting a contrarian view. Furthermore, this revelation has provided insight into how some of the "off-the-wall-comments" in some thread
responses could have been obtained.

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lorenfb, I'm not sure of the history here, but I haven't seen any examples of persecution these few days.

As for your previous post:

"
There's a difference between an accusation and a question. And the complete post;

You have become a MNL forum moderator, right? MNL is now controlled by Tesla shills? Been accessing info from member's accounts?
So possibly it was you who modified one of my posts, too?
"

... The above most definitely reads of accusation. Maybe there's a difference between intended tone versus implied tone, but from my eyes that's a very strong accusation of post modification.

EVDRIVER said:

Ad hominem attacks are not exclusively reserved for you to use or other members nor is your opinion or mine. Be careful how you pint fingers because you have been called out that before by others as well. Yes that report was mostly positive but we both know that's not the point nor was that your goal. I have no loyalty to Tesla or any other EV company and if I was ever an EV "fanboy" I would say that it was for the LEAF. If you feel you are not treated fairly under the forum rules please let me know and I will be the first to argue on your behalf I can assure you. I will admit you and Ed are the first people I have ever called a troll on this forum. Not the best as it has negative connotations, the implication is one of spamming. If that offended you I apologize but I still reserve the right to express my opinions as do others sans specific terminology. You are also allowed to point out anything you want negative or otherwise but we also know that is not the point because no one has stopped you nor will they.

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O.K. So now please change your profile to indicate that you're a moderator. It's time to move-on!

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Ad hominem attacks are not exclusively reserved for you to use or other members nor is your opinion or mine. Be careful how you pint fingers because you have been called out that before by others as well. Yes that report was mostly positive but we both know that's not the point nor was that your goal. I have no loyalty to Tesla or any other EV company and if I was ever an EV "fanboy" I would say that it was for the LEAF. If you feel you are not treated fairly under the forum rules please let me know and I will be the first to argue on your behalf I can assure you. I will admit you and Ed are the first people I have ever called a troll on this forum. Not the best as it has negative connotations, the implication is one of spamming. If that offended you I apologize but I still reserve the right to express my opinions as do others sans specific terminology. You are also allowed to point out anything you want negative or otherwise but we also know that is not the point because no one has stopped you nor will they.

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O.K. So now please change your profile to indicate that you're a moderator. It's time to move-on!

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Happy to move on. Please PM me your specific concerns and I will address them related to privacy. My designation for a long time was super moderator or something silly but after donating it changed and for some thecnical reason it could not be changed back. I’ve been clear about being a mod here but it’s not as obvious because there are fewer mod activities as a result of highly reduced traffic over the years. I’m still unclear of the concern you have but if it is related to warnings that’s usually public info that is called out on the thread and appears on your postings. It may not show on yours or others so if that is the case I apologize. Warnings are usually also noted by mods in the thread as well. I don’t agree with many warnings here FYI particularly those that are subjective about opinions. I think you have value to add here considering it is not clouded by the other content dumping. That’s my personal opinion because as a mod my opinion about other things is irrelevant. I would appreciate that you refrain from insinuating things unless you are going to PM me about specifics.

lorenfb said:

I'm disappointed to learn that a MNL moderator,
unknown to some, used ad hominems in the past to denigrate MNL members on occasion when their posted issues were in disagreement
with his.

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Except it never happened.
The Mod called you and Ed out for Tesla trolling

You may not understand the difference between negative opinions and trolling, but that is your problem.
I am willing to move on now.