Official Tesla Model 3 thread

As you know, that has mostly to do with the climate that you personally live in.

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Yes, and if you read the words to which I responded, they include these : "even in moderate climates." My climate is definitely considered "moderate" even if it gets hot in Summer.

drees said:

Should be picking up my Model 3 next week and selling the Prius.

We shall see if the Model 3 has any significant shortcomings. I think the biggest issue will be that their service centers just aren't growing fast enough to handle all the vehicles on the road and if you do need parts, they are a pain to obtain and may take a while to get.

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Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center. the regen on the 3 is much stronger than the LEAF, so stop and go travel can be quite efficient. However, I find that the substantial power of the motor even at high speed means that my foot gets heavy and i find I don't achieve an overall efficiency as high as my LEAF. i'm really impressed at how good the car came out.

opencar said:

drees said:

Should be picking up my Model 3 next week and selling the Prius.

We shall see if the Model 3 has any significant shortcomings. I think the biggest issue will be that their service centers just aren't growing fast enough to handle all the vehicles on the road and if you do need parts, they are a pain to obtain and may take a while to get.

Click to expand...

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center. the regen on the 3 is much stronger than the LEAF, so stop and go travel can be quite efficient. However, I find that the substantial power of the motor even at high speed means that my foot gets heavy and i find I don't achieve an overall efficiency as high as my LEAF. i'm really impressed at how good the car came out.

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Have you tried “chill” mode?
It was a setting added fairly recently, so if it isn’t available under settings it should be available with the next update you get.

And congratulations

opencar said:

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center.

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And now to air the other side of the story...

I have to say, that's a VERY low bar.

My expectation for a new car is that it better not require any visits to the service center for at least over a year/10K miles, and maybe 1-2 visits tops in the first 3 years.

Okay, I'm willing to give Tesla a bit more of a break considering this is a brand new car model from a relatively new manufacturer that is still in its early years. And my ACTUAL expectation is that I will likely have to visit the service center at least twice during the first year. But in my opinion anyway, I am hoping that making it to the 3 week mark without a visit to the service center is not simply because I'm lucky!

lpickup said:

opencar said:

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center.

Click to expand...

And now to air the other side of the story...

I have to say, that's a VERY low bar.

My expectation for a new car is that it better not require any visits to the service center for at least over a year/10K miles, and maybe 1-2 visits tops in the first 3 years.

Okay, I'm willing to give Tesla a bit more of a break considering this is a brand new car model from a relatively new manufacturer that is still in its early years. And my ACTUAL expectation is that I will likely have to visit the service center at least twice during the first year. But in my opinion anyway, I am hoping that making it to the 3 week mark without a visit to the service center is not simply because I'm lucky!

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Not as low a bar as you suggest since the lion's share of problems will show up very soon after delivery if they are to show up at all.

opencar said:

drees said:

Should be picking up my Model 3 next week and selling the Prius.

We shall see if the Model 3 has any significant shortcomings. I think the biggest issue will be that their service centers just aren't growing fast enough to handle all the vehicles on the road and if you do need parts, they are a pain to obtain and may take a while to get.

Click to expand...

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center. the regen on the 3 is much stronger than the LEAF, so stop and go travel can be quite efficient. However, I find that the substantial power of the motor even at high speed means that my foot gets heavy and i find I don't achieve an overall efficiency as high as my LEAF. i'm really impressed at how good the car came out.

Click to expand...

Interestingly the regen capacity of a FWD car is higher with the same motor power capabilities vs RWD. The AWD M3 should have even greater regen capabilities overall and in lower traction situations.

lpickup said:

opencar said:

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center.

Click to expand...

And now to air the other side of the story...

I have to say, that's a VERY low bar.

My expectation for a new car is that it better not require any visits to the service center for at least over a year/10K miles, and maybe 1-2 visits tops in the first 3 years.

Okay, I'm willing to give Tesla a bit more of a break considering this is a brand new car model from a relatively new manufacturer that is still in its early years. And my ACTUAL expectation is that I will likely have to visit the service center at least twice during the first year. But in my opinion anyway, I am hoping that making it to the 3 week mark without a visit to the service center is not simply because I'm lucky!

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He was sharing his experience. Since his personal experience was of owning the vehicle 3 weeks, that is what he stated.
It in no way says that is his expectations.

The last thing I want to hear is someone that owns a car three weeks, saying it has been trouble free for ten years :roll:

Zythryn said:

Have you tried “chill” mode?
It was a setting added fairly recently, so if it isn’t available under settings it should be available with the next update you get.

And congratulations

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Yes, my god, this car has an incredible amount of power. Even full whack in Chill mode is a little startling coming from a Leaf and Soul EV. It’s mildly addicting to be able to pick an open space in traffic and teleport there with the right pedal.

If I put on Autopilot in Chill my commute is getting me about 4.1 mi/kWh where the Leaf was usually right at 4. Not sure how they pulled that off.

mtndrew1 said:

Zythryn said:

Have you tried “chill” mode?
It was a setting added fairly recently, so if it isn’t available under settings it should be available with the next update you get.

And congratulations

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Yes, my god, this car has an incredible amount of power. Even full whack in Chill mode is a little startling coming from a Leaf and Soul EV. It’s mildly addicting to be able to pick an open space in traffic and teleport there with the right pedal.

If I put on Autopilot in Chill my commute is getting me about 4.1 mi/kWh where the Leaf was usually right at 4. Not sure how they pulled that off.

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Of course the car is much heavier and higher performance, the PM motor is however the most efficient EV motor design ever made to date. I expect the AWD version to have a smaller induction motor up front and perhaps be less efficient unlike the similar S config.

I finally had some time to watch the Munro video.

While he did impress me a bit more with his objectivity in handing out credit where credit is due, I still haven't changed my overall opinion of the fact that Autoline TV (and particularly host John McElroy) represent Detroit Big Auto and it's clear that they see outsiders (and EVs) as a threat (right from the opening "off-air" comment that the co-host was without power for 2 straight days and would have been screwed if he had an EV...ummm....okay....I guess gas gumps work on fairy dust...)

So the fact that Sandy Munro had anything positive to say about the Tesla--much less going so far as to actually praise some of the technology--really says something. I also thought it was funny that he admitted some of his earlier criticism on the fit and finish was exaggerated through prompting by McElroy.

I do think that Munro's level of knowledge, impressive as it is, hasn't really advanced with the times. In particular the whole discussion about why there was so much electronics integrated on the autopilot board was a bit humorous to me, even though most of the components were simply bypass caps. And yes, his assumption of robots being blind and one-armed seems silly in 2018.

Zythryn said:

He was sharing his experience. Since his personal experience was of owning the vehicle 3 weeks, that is what he stated.
It in no way says that is his expectations.

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And I never said anything about his expectations, only mine. My point is simply that taking the time to craft a post saying that there have been no problems in 3 weeks seems a bit premature to me.

It's a bit like the folks on the "Phone as Key" thread on TMC posting that they got an update or re-paired their phone yesterday and have had "no issues since". I mean I think you have to give it at least a week before declaring victory.

I don't mean to detract from opencar's enthusiasm for his new car and his experience so far...I just expect (and again, it's MY expectation) that the vast majority of new owners would have the same experience.

lpickup said:

Zythryn said:

He was sharing his experience. Since his personal experience was of owning the vehicle 3 weeks, that is what he stated.
It in no way says that is his expectations.

Click to expand...

And I never said anything about his expectations, only mine. My point is simply that taking the time to craft a post saying that there have been no problems in 3 weeks seems a bit premature to me.

It's a bit like the folks on the "Phone as Key" thread on TMC posting that they got an update or re-paired their phone yesterday and have had "no issues since". I mean I think you have to give it at least a week before declaring victory.

I don't mean to detract from opencar's enthusiasm for his new car and his experience so far...I just expect (and again, it's MY expectation) that the vast majority of new owners would have the same experience.

Click to expand...

I expect the majority of the cars to all fall apart at month 2. But that's just my expectation. I don't know why but it just is.

EVDRIVER said:

opencar said:

drees said:

Should be picking up my Model 3 next week and selling the Prius.

We shall see if the Model 3 has any significant shortcomings. I think the biggest issue will be that their service centers just aren't growing fast enough to handle all the vehicles on the road and if you do need parts, they are a pain to obtain and may take a while to get.

Click to expand...

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center. the regen on the 3 is much stronger than the LEAF, so stop and go travel can be quite efficient. However, I find that the substantial power of the motor even at high speed means that my foot gets heavy and i find I don't achieve an overall efficiency as high as my LEAF. i'm really impressed at how good the car came out.

Click to expand...

Interestingly the regen capacity of a FWD car is higher with the same motor power capabilities vs RWD. The AWD M3 should have even greater regen capabilities overall and in lower traction situations.

Click to expand...

I expect AWD regen to match FWD for the same size motors. That's just physics.

When braking, the center of weight shifts to the front, increasing the friction forces on the front tires, while simultaneously reducing the friction forces on the rear tires. More friction = more torque to spin a motor in regen. The regenerating rear motor won't add anything to the overall regen power, because any regen in the rear pulls the weight-shifting back and thus less is available for the front motors.

This works in reverse for acceleration, as the rear tires can put more power on the road than the front tires. That's why a RWD dodge demon can almost match a P100D (after the engine fully engages).

But AWD is still awesome for EV's. All the regen, and power application, with only a slight cost of an additional motor and weight.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

EVDRIVER said:

opencar said:

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center. the regen on the 3 is much stronger than the LEAF, so stop and go travel can be quite efficient. However, I find that the substantial power of the motor even at high speed means that my foot gets heavy and i find I don't achieve an overall efficiency as high as my LEAF. i'm really impressed at how good the car came out.

Click to expand...

Interestingly the regen capacity of a FWD car is higher with the same motor power capabilities vs RWD. The AWD M3 should have even greater regen capabilities overall and in lower traction situations.

Click to expand...

I expect AWD regen to match FWD for the same size motors. That's just physics.

When braking, the center of weight shifts to the front, increasing the friction forces on the front tires, while simultaneously reducing the friction forces on the rear tires. More friction = more torque to spin a motor in regen. The regenerating rear motor won't add anything to the overall regen power, because any regen in the rear pulls the weight-shifting back and thus less is available for the front motors.

This works in reverse for acceleration, as the rear tires can put more power on the road than the front tires. That's why a RWD dodge demon can almost match a P100D (after the engine fully engages).

But AWD is still awesome for EV's. All the regen, and power application, with only a slight cost of an additional motor and weight.

Click to expand...

I'm not positive but I am under the impression that the upper limit of regen in a Tesla is dictated by the battery.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

EVDRIVER said:

opencar said:

Luckily in 3+ weeks of ownership on the TM3 and 2000 mi. I have yet to incur any problems that would require me to go to the service center. the regen on the 3 is much stronger than the LEAF, so stop and go travel can be quite efficient. However, I find that the substantial power of the motor even at high speed means that my foot gets heavy and i find I don't achieve an overall efficiency as high as my LEAF. i'm really impressed at how good the car came out.

Click to expand...

Interestingly the regen capacity of a FWD car is higher with the same motor power capabilities vs RWD. The AWD M3 should have even greater regen capabilities overall and in lower traction situations.

Click to expand...

I expect AWD regen to match FWD for the same size motors. That's just physics.

When braking, the center of weight shifts to the front, increasing the friction forces on the front tires, while simultaneously reducing the friction forces on the rear tires. More friction = more torque to spin a motor in regen. The regenerating rear motor won't add anything to the overall regen power, because any regen in the rear pulls the weight-shifting back and thus less is available for the front motors.

This works in reverse for acceleration, as the rear tires can put more power on the road than the front tires. That's why a RWD dodge demon can almost match a P100D (after the engine fully engages).

But AWD is still awesome for EV's. All the regen, and power application, with only a slight cost of an additional motor and weight.

Click to expand...

AWD will have better regen than a FWD system regardless of the shift because of drivability.

The 3 AWD design is going to have a lower power inverter in the rear to the same PM motor and a new induction motor up front with just slightly higher kw output. The S with AWD would always net more regen than the RWD or a FWD S with the same total kw power available on the any of the thre configs. The weight transfer is valid in your example but not the complete story . Also comparing two cars to match each other is not a good example since there are so many variables. Sure a RWD car will have more traction off the line than a FWD car in most cases because of weight transfer.

EVDRIVER said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

EVDRIVER said:

Interestingly the regen capacity of a FWD car is higher with the same motor power capabilities vs RWD. The AWD M3 should have even greater regen capabilities overall and in lower traction situations.

Click to expand...

I expect AWD regen to match FWD for the same size motors. That's just physics.

When braking, the center of weight shifts to the front, increasing the friction forces on the front tires, while simultaneously reducing the friction forces on the rear tires. More friction = more torque to spin a motor in regen. The regenerating rear motor won't add anything to the overall regen power, because any regen in the rear pulls the weight-shifting back and thus less is available for the front motors.

This works in reverse for acceleration, as the rear tires can put more power on the road than the front tires. That's why a RWD dodge demon can almost match a P100D (after the engine fully engages).

But AWD is still awesome for EV's. All the regen, and power application, with only a slight cost of an additional motor and weight.

Click to expand...

AWD will have better regen than a FWD system regardless of the shift because of drivability.

The 3 AWD design is going to have a lower power inverter in the rear to the same PM motor and a new induction motor up front with just slightly higher kw output. The S with AWD would always net more regen than the RWD or a FWD S with the same total kw power available on the any of the thre configs. The weight transfer is valid in your example but not the complete story . Also comparing two cars to match each other is not a good example since there are so many variables. Sure a RWD car will have more traction off the line than a FWD car in most cases because of weight transfer.

Click to expand...

How will drivability make the AWD regen higher/better?

I agree that drivability will make AWD better than FWD, but we're talking about how much energy you can recoup from regenerative braking, and that's strictly govern by physics.

Note, there's no FWD model S for you to make the above italicized claim. But there is a Chevy Bolt with a smaller motor that has higher regenerative braking power (70kw - http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?271481-Chevy-Bolt-EV-Max-Regen-At-Least-70-kW) than a heavier (which should net greater regen power) model S (60kw - maybe software limited).

lpickup said:

My expectation for a new car is that it better not require any visits to the service center for at least over a year/10K miles, and maybe 1-2 visits tops in the first 3 years.

Click to expand...

That was my expectation before I got the LEAF. Not only was it in for service when 10 weeks old, but then I didn't have it for over 3 weeks.

lpickup said:

Zythryn said:

He was sharing his experience. Since his personal experience was of owning the vehicle 3 weeks, that is what he stated.
It in no way says that is his expectations.

Click to expand...

And I never said anything about his expectations, only mine. My point is simply that taking the time to craft a post saying that there have been no problems in 3 weeks seems a bit premature to me.

It's a bit like the folks on the "Phone as Key" thread on TMC posting that they got an update or re-paired their phone yesterday and have had "no issues since". I mean I think you have to give it at least a week before declaring victory.

I don't mean to detract from opencar's enthusiasm for his new car and his experience so far...I just expect (and again, it's MY expectation) that the vast majority of new owners would have the same experience.

Click to expand...

I think you are reading too much into it. No one, in either thread, is “declaring victory”.
The way I read it is ‘so far so good’, not ‘it will never break since it hasn’t in three weeks’.

What're the majority of the Tesla OTA M3 updates?

Model 3 Master Firmware Updates List and pre 2018.12 discussion

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https://model3ownersclub.com/threads/model-3-master-firmware-updates-list-and-pre-2018-12-discussion.5471/

or here (after 3/18);

https://model3ownersclub.com/threads/firmware-build-is-2018-12-1-b39b759-4-6-18.6452/

It's to the MCU and/or AP systems.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

EVDRIVER said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

I expect AWD regen to match FWD for the same size motors. That's just physics.

When braking, the center of weight shifts to the front, increasing the friction forces on the front tires, while simultaneously reducing the friction forces on the rear tires. More friction = more torque to spin a motor in regen. The regenerating rear motor won't add anything to the overall regen power, because any regen in the rear pulls the weight-shifting back and thus less is available for the front motors.

This works in reverse for acceleration, as the rear tires can put more power on the road than the front tires. That's why a RWD dodge demon can almost match a P100D (after the engine fully engages).

But AWD is still awesome for EV's. All the regen, and power application, with only a slight cost of an additional motor and weight.

Click to expand...

AWD will have better regen than a FWD system regardless of the shift because of drivability.

The 3 AWD design is going to have a lower power inverter in the rear to the same PM motor and a new induction motor up front with just slightly higher kw output. The S with AWD would always net more regen than the RWD or a FWD S with the same total kw power available on the any of the thre configs. The weight transfer is valid in your example but not the complete story . Also comparing two cars to match each other is not a good example since there are so many variables. Sure a RWD car will have more traction off the line than a FWD car in most cases because of weight transfer.

Click to expand...

How will drivability make the AWD regen higher/better?

I agree that drivability will make AWD better than FWD, but we're talking about how much energy you can recoup from regenerative braking, and that's strictly govern by physics.

Note, there's no FWD model S for you to make the above italicized claim. But there is a Chevy Bolt with a smaller motor that has higher regenerative braking power (70kw - http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?271481-Chevy-Bolt-EV-Max-Regen-At-Least-70-kW) than a heavier (which should net greater regen power) model S (60kw - maybe software limited).

Click to expand...

The weight shift of regen in the rear does not cancel out the added benefits of the second motor for regen. There are other cases also. Please stop comparing other cars with different designs and tires and other factors like fwd to rwd. Let me correct myself, you can get more regen with two motor front and back vs one single motor. There is still power to gain on the rear