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edatoakrun said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
edatoakrun said:
Tesla submitted EPA certification showing the LR 3 pack will accept ~89.4 kWh from a full charge:

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=42148&flag=1
...Everyone who reads that document knows that's how much electricity was supplied from the wall and thus doesn't include charging losses...
Actually, the energy accepted on recharge comes from the grid, as supplied by the EVSE.

I used the term grid-to-road efficiency rather than Overall Trip Efficiency as I thought it more self-explanatory.

I'm surprised you would be that considerate to Tesla when using such a worthless metric. Had the EPA charged the model 3 and then let it sit there for a week, the vampire drain would've failed miserably against your grid-to-road efficiency.

After 4 weeks with my model 3, my monthly electricity consumption has only risen by ~90kwh, which is exactly how much electricity is consumed from my wife using the leaf to commute to work, since she no longer drives her gas car. This means that my model 3 is using roughly the same amount of electricity as the leaf to drive the same number of miles (despite the vampire drain AND higher consumption from driving faster!), yielding effectively the same grid-to-road efficiency.

Your narrative does not fit reality.

edatoakrun said:
edatoakrun said:
...The range test results are consistent with only about 66 kWh being available for traction before shutdown, which also happens to be what the 3's BMS reportedly stated.

~66/~89.4= ~74% grid-to-road efficiency, which is quite frankly terrible...
For example, in AVTA testing a 2014 Tesla Model S 85 kWh averaged ~89% efficiency over three test cycles:

2014 Tesla Model S 85 kWh
Advanced Vehicle Testing – Baseline Vehicle Testing Results...

(A+/C) Overall Trip Efficiency 15: 90% 88% 89%...

15. Overall Vehicle Efficiency is calculated by dividing the DC energy out of the battery (A+) by the AC energy from the EVSE (C).
https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/fact2014teslamodels.pdf

BTW, while I don't mind explaining things to you, if you continue be as obnoxious in your replies as in the one above, you will join SageBrush in onanistic conversation...

The only reason I'm even responding to you is that I don't want you to think that you've made some sort of profound point that has left the opposition speechless.

Your use of AVTA test results and ignoring of other's explanations of 2nd order losses having 1st order impact on energy consumption shows you don't fully understand the material you're referencing. So you'll have to excuse me if I'm thrilled to hear you withhold your explanations so that I may participate "in onanistic conversation".
 
For heaven's sake, ignore Ed the talking troll.

We know the Wh/mile meter was inaccurate during the hypermile run. I'm curious if it is also inaccurate during more typical driving. I plan to use a SuperCharger on Tuesday, so I will have a chance to to validate the Wh/mile meter then since I'll be provided a kWh report. Does anybody know if the kWh charged are from the meter or a calculated amount of energy into the battery ?
 
SageBrush said:
For heaven's sake, ignore Ed the talking troll.

We know the Wh/mile meter was inaccurate during the hypermile run. I'm curious if it is also inaccurate during more typical driving. I plan to use a SuperCharger on Tuesday, so I will have a chance to to validate the Wh/mile meter then since I'll be provided a kWh report. Does anybody know if the kWh charged are from the meter or a calculated amount of energy into the battery ?

I don’t know but have my guess :)
My guess is that the rate charged is the amount of kWh delivered by the charger/nozzle. While the amount the car reports is the amount the batteries actually get.
As these are DC power, I’m thinking those are identical? At least very nearly so.

Unfortunately I haven’t been on a long enough trip yet to make a good efficiency test.
The dashboard has shown ne around 210-220 Wh/mile most of the time, which would get me more range than the rated number.
 
^^
It should not be hard to figure out since every 1% SoC is 0.78 kWh, +/- hysteresis and whatever. Surely way less than the 10% charging losses we are wondering about.
I just have to remember to track the SoC change on Tuesday ;-)
 
I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.
 
sparky said:
I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.
and for old timers: 60 mph (one mile a minute) throughput. I think that matches most Google estimates for trips in general for cars, EV or otherwise. Which just matches what we already know from arithmetic and experience: the SuperCharging is folded into breaks most people take anyway.
 
sparky said:
I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.

Mix of city, highway and highway rush hour traffic gives great efficiency.
If I were to do a long distance highway trip I am sure it would be less efficient.
Driving the 3 has been amazing, I have loved every moment.
My wife picked hers up a few days ago and I have accompanied two friends in the last two weeks to get theirs!
 
Zythryn said:
sparky said:
I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.

Mix of city, highway and highway rush hour traffic gives great efficiency.
If I were to do a long distance highway trip I am sure it would be less efficient.
Driving the 3 has been amazing, I have loved every moment.
My wife picked hers up a few days ago and I have accompanied two friends in the last two weeks to get theirs!

Agree - the 3 ended up blowing away my expectations. For consumer products (albeit an expensive one) i put it on my personal ranking list of the original ipod touch, and the original directv tivo unit as breakthrough devices. Can't believe your efficiency - my lifetime for 3,000 miles is now at 270 wh/mi.
 
opencar said:
Agree - the 3 ended up blowing away my expectations. For consumer products (albeit an expensive one) i put it on my personal ranking list of the original ipod touch, and the original directv tivo unit as breakthrough devices. Can't believe your efficiency - my lifetime for 3,000 miles is now at 270 wh/mi.


Lifetime average is lower, I'll have to check what exactly. This is just over the last 10 days or so.
Winter will give us a big hit, how much, we shall have to see.
I have always admired the efficiency of the Leaf, it is wonderful to finally be living with that efficiency :D
 
Edmunds
Published on Jun 14, 2018

Did Tesla's over-the-air firmware update change the braking distance of our Model 3? Dan Edmunds, director of vehicle testing for Edmunds, heads back to the track with our long-term Model 3 for a second round of brake tests following a firmware update (2018.18.13) Tesla released late in May. The update is said to address an issue with the Model 3's braking system after some third-party organizations reported exceptionally long stopping distances for the vehicle in testing. We changed nothing else on our car, using the same brakes, the same tires, set at the same tire pressure (45 psi), and the exact same testing protocol we always do. Here's what we found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l3qn53iuvE

XZBIvQ9.jpg
 
I had an opportunity to monitor Supercharger rates by SoC today in my Model 3 LR
I arrived at the charger with ~ 25% SoC and charged up to 80%

Charge rate stayed at 114 kW until 40% SoC, and then dropped in a fairly linear manner to 50 kW at 80% SoC
The reported 465 miles per hour charge rate is based on EPA fuel economy. I drive 65 - 70 mph and consume about 200 Wh/mile, so my recharging rate at SoC up to 40% is about 114*5 = 570 miles an hour, or close to 10 miles a minute.

This is already quite convenient for my road trips, but I'll always take faster if available and not a detriment to the battery. Supercharger V.3 here we come ! An aside, I pay for Supercharger use. Each state has a rate and NM is pretty cheap. It cost 3.7 cents a rated mile ($6.27 for 172 EPA rated miles) at this station and charge event, or about 20% less cost for my personal driving behavior -- about 2.9 cents a mile.

uc
 
SageBrush said:
I had an opportunity to monitor Supercharger rates by SoC today in my Model 3 LR
I arrived at the charger with ~ 25% SoC and charged up to 80%

Charge rate stayed at 114 kW until 40% SoC, and then dropped in a fairly linear manner to 50 kW at 80% SoC
The reported 465 miles per hour charge rate is based on EPA fuel economy. I drive 65 - 70 mph and consume about 200 Wh/mile, so my recharging rate at SoC up to 40% is about 114*5 = 570 miles an hour, or close to 10 miles a minute.

This is already quite convenient for my road trips, but I'll always take faster if available and not a detriment to the battery. Supercharger V.3 here we come ! An aside, I pay for Supercharger use. Each state has a rate and NM is pretty cheap. It cost 3.7 cents a rated mile ($6.27 for 172 EPA rated miles) at this station and charge event, or about 20% less cost for my personal driving behavior -- about 2.9 cents a mile.
Farmington Supercharger Station?

Some of your outstanding 200 Wh/mile is altitude, so don't be surprised if it is a bit higher than that when you venture down to sea level! I am envious of those charge rates — about double what I get in my "primitive" S60 thanks to a much faster taper, not counting the greater efficiency of the Model 3. Still prefer my S though.
 
Albuquerque.

Agreed wrt to elevation benefit. Air density is ~ 87% of sea level, so I estimate ~ a 6% fuel economy boost.
Elon mentioned that older models will not be able to take advantage of SC V.3. I don't know where the cut-off is or any details, but your jealousy is likely to spike in the next year.

No matter. You still have a GREAT car. It will service you just as well next year and for many years to come as it does today and a year ago.
 
SageBrush said:
Albuquerque.

Agreed wrt to elevation benefit. Air density is ~ 87% of sea level, so I estimate ~ a 6% fuel economy boost.
Elon mentioned that older models will not be able to take advantage of SC V.3. I don't know where the cut-off is or any details, but your jealousy is likely to spike in the next year.

No matter. You still have a GREAT car. It will service you just as well next year and for many years to come as it does today and a year ago.
I long ago got used to my slow Supercharging — you get what you pay for and I paid less for my CPO S60 than a bigger battery car. Often the car is ready before I am and even when it isn't, the cost to trade it in for a bigger battery car would be tens of thousands of dollars. I'll live with one hour Supercharging while you can revel in your twenty minutes or so!

At least I pay nothing for Supercharging — that's a big deal for me because most of my miles are road trips and I've Supercharged 198 times in 2¼ years.
 
GRA said:
AWD -- "Tesla CEO Elon Musk previously stated that production of the Performance version of the Model 3 would begin in July. Well, it’s only mid-June, so it looks as though Tesla is ahead of schedule with this launch."

Amazing work by Tesla team. Built entire new general assembly line in 3 weeks w minimal resources. Love u guys so much! Pic of 1st Model 3 dual motor performance coming off the line … pic.twitter.com/Xr55P3fmGd
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 16, 2018

Will be curious how these big brakes do. Of course you'd expect people with this car to get grippier tires so that would factor in! ie. better than the 122' that was just tested

NbRHV40.jpg
 
scottf200 said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
They release OTA updates on the model 3 constantly, with mere days between them.
You have no clue what you are talking about and not using any facts or reasoning.

Days? The major firmware numbers have the week of the year in them: 2017.48, 50; 2018.04, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20
lmao

https://model3ownersclub.com/threads/model-3-master-firmware-updates-list-and-pre-2018-12-discussion.5471/
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
scottf200 said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
They release OTA updates on the model 3 constantly, with mere days between them.
Days? The major firmware numbers have the week of the year in them: 2017.48, 50; 2018.04, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20
lmao
https://model3ownersclub.com/threads/model-3-master-firmware-updates-list-and-pre-2018-12-discussion.5471/
Nice find. My memory has failed me as I didn't recall that many between major weeks.
5DBXH3v.jpg
 
I just did a round trip in my Model 3 between Los Angeles and Bisbee Arizona last weekend, *in* a long weekend!

It’s so bizarre to pop out on a 1200 mile road trip in an electric car with the cruise set to 10 MPH over and the HVAC cranking away without doing a spreadsheet and some advanced mathematics and a key ring of charging station membership cards and hoping and praying that the single CHAdeMO nozzle will be functional and that the key car reader will work and...and...

The car handled all the charging calculations and navigation (two 0.6 hr stops each direction) and was typically ready to go before I was. The predictions accurately accounted for speed, temperature, and elevation changes and was within 2% of its SOC prediction each time and was within 5 mins of estimated arrival time. Truly remarkable.

The car itself is of course very efficient and powerful and autopilot did ~85% of the driving and is truly a blessing in inclement weather. It drove better than I could have through some torrential downpours. It does have more wind noise than I like over ~75 MPH but the insane stereo easily drowned it out.

My total preparation was to enter the end point destination and my total charging prep was to arrive and insert the nozzle in the car.

Game changer. It’s just a regular, wonderful sports sedan.
 
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