cwerdna
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:33 am

mtndrew1 wrote:The Mid-Range car has 260 miles of EPA certified range.

Out of curiosity, do you have a source about the EPA certification of that range rating? I realize that Tesla is stating 260 miles EPA estimate on their web site.

Hope you realize that the EPA actually does not actually test the fuel economy of most vehicles. I assume this holds true of EVs, as well.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml states
Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a series of tests specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 15%–20% of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.


Electrek: Tesla Model 3 is starting to show some important flaws in cold weather
https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-mo ... her-flaws/

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:07 am

They will probably use low-temp lithium or silicone grease on both the door handles and window tracks. Speaking of which: what stupid designs.
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lkkms2
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:14 am

In winter time there is a phenomenon that occurs if you park your car outside.
It is called “ICE Happens” ;)
One solution, get a car cover.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:52 am

lkkms2 wrote:In winter time there is a phenomenon that occurs if you park your car outside.
It is called “ICE Happens” ;)
One solution, get a car cover.


Not many people have to worry about not being able to get into their cars just because it's cold outside. This isn't just an icing issue.
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SalisburySam
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:10 am

TL;DR - For me, icing is more of an annoyance than a huge problem. The big problem is range loss.

No disrespect towards Electrek, but I believe the biggest issue will be the same one we experience in the LEAF: range loss. My 2012 SL with its very thirsty heating system lost about 30% of its range on my typical routes in Ohio’s winters which are pretty mild by Canadian standards. That was made worse year-on-year as the battery itself lost capacity (but not enough to get a free replacement). Now living in North Carolina and with that LEAF’s range of only 45 or so miles, winter isn’t as much an issue.

In my Model 3, I’ll be making a trip to Michigan for Thanksgiving and all the trip planning services that I use (EV Trip Planner, A Better RoutePlanner, and the Go Anywhere website from Tesla itself) ALL have me stopping at at least one and mostly two additional Superchargers for the exact same trip made in early September. The assumptions are that the heat is used, and electron consumption will increase from my normal 240-or-so Wh/mile to just under 300, with a 310-mile range reduced by about 90 miles. That 90-mile loss is greater than my LEAF’s entire range when it was brand new, and adds a couple of hours to the duration for the extra stops. For me, that’s a much bigger problem.
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Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:31 am

SalisburySam wrote:TL;DR - For me, icing is more of an annoyance than a huge problem. The big problem is range loss.

No disrespect towards Electrek, but I believe the biggest issue will be the same one we experience in the LEAF: range loss. My 2012 SL with its very thirsty heating system lost about 30% of its range on my typical routes in Ohio’s winters which are pretty mild by Canadian standards. That was made worse year-on-year as the battery itself lost capacity (but not enough to get a free replacement). Now living in North Carolina and with that LEAF’s range of only 45 or so miles, winter isn’t as much an issue.

In my Model 3, I’ll be making a trip to Michigan for Thanksgiving and all the trip planning services that I use (EV Trip Planner, A Better RoutePlanner, and the Go Anywhere website from Tesla itself) ALL have me stopping at at least one and mostly two additional Superchargers for the exact same trip made in early September. The assumptions are that the heat is used, and electron consumption will increase from my normal 240-or-so Wh/mile to just under 300, with a 310-mile range reduced by about 90 miles. That 90-mile loss is greater than my LEAF’s entire range when it was brand new, and adds a couple of hours to the duration for the extra stops. For me, that’s a much bigger problem.


Not sure how 90 miles of lost range translates to 2 additional supercharges, but please let us know how that trip goes?
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GlennD
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:34 pm

Well, I admit I do not really follow Tesla. I am one of those holding out for Elon's word. I was told that the intermediate range was 200 miles. I really have no first hand knowledge.
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cwerdna
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:40 pm

GlennD wrote:Well, I admit I do not really follow Tesla. I am one of those holding out for Elon's word. I was told that the intermediate range was 200 miles. I really have no first hand knowledge.

Per https://web.archive.org/web/20170731003 ... ations-faq, the base "$35K" is supposed to have 220 miles of range but was supposed to be available to order in Nov 2017. :) :lol:

If you go through the order process at https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#battery, you'll see it claims the mid range battery version that got surprisingly introduced has 260 miles of range (EPA est.) That mid-range car started at $45K but the price went up $46K a few days later. The forced features of the mid-range battery and premium package are what make the price what it is.

I wasn't able to find a mid-range 3 at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... =sbsSelect yet.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:12 pm

cwerdna wrote:Electrek: Tesla Model 3 is starting to show some important flaws in cold weather
https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-mo ... her-flaws/

And that's why I'd never buy any car with 'Falcon-Wing' (or any other power-operated) doors/handles, that have multiple extra seals, power actuators and joints that can all freeze up in cold weather, will be inherently less reliable, and will cost an arm and a leg to repair out of warranty. Flush door handles, while providing the lowest drag, are going to have this issue regardless.

While preventing freeze-up isn't an insurmountable problem, it does demonstrate once again that Tesla's pre-production testing falls short of the major automakers. They really need to get a full-time testing site outside of the Bay Area, instead of just using one on a temporary basis. Engineers who live in these conditions full time have already experienced the problems that can occur, and learned how to deal with them. This is reminiscent of Tesla's initial SC site design, where no thought was given to the need to provide access to snowplows during the winter - it took cold climate Tesla owners to point out the issue to the company, after which they introduced a new site design. Same goes with the need for pull-through spaces that don't block access for other vehicles when pulling a trailer.
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cwerdna
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:17 pm

^^^
Agreed, however the 3 doesn't have "falcon wing" doors and the door handles aren't of the pop out/retract via motor kind that were on the S. You push on the larger end and pull on the handle.

Regarding pre-produciton testing, I started https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.56176/ over at TMC, it's just crickets. :? :roll:

From example stats at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2601186 (several S drivers that were on their 7th+ drive unit), and the DU replacement rate early on of the S at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1279598, it's always had me wondering about Tesla's long-term durability testing. Ditto for X drivers who've got their half-shafts replaced numerous times: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... der.74184/.

Seems like their vehicles are always a rush job to get them shipping. And, it could take years for them to finally get some of those issues under control. And, I question how well they validate (for long term reliability and durability) changes they're making.

For the X, it seems like a lost cause from the FWDs, front doors and other stuff.

Oct 2016: https://web.archive.org/web/20170101002 ... able-cars/ - X was middle of bottom 10
Oct 2017: https://web.archive.org/web/20180806100 ... able-cars/ - X was dead last
Oct 2018: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... able-cars/ - X was 2nd from the bottom

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