GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:29 pm

Via IEVS:
2016 Kia Soul EV: 1 Year Review – Video
http://insideevs.com/2016-kia-soul-ev-1 ... iew-video/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 2751
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:43 am
Delivery Date: 03 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 23156
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:13 am

Kia seems to be ramping up in New England. Added L2s in Warwick RI and Framingham MA, and Framingham shows 4 Soul EVs in stock. Previously only 2 dealers south of Hartford CT carried them.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:40 pm

Via IEVS:
2018 Kia Soul EV Gets Ever-So Slight Battery Upgrade, Range Jumps Up To ~113 Miles
http://insideevs.com/2018-kia-soul-ev-g ... y-upgrade/

2018 Kia Soul EV has more range from 30-kWH battery, leaked docs claim

A pair of leaked documents from Kia indicates the brand is fitting a 30-kilowatt-hour battery in the Soul EV as a replacement for the existing 27 kWh pack, according to Kia-World. The model’s electric motor continues to produce 109 horsepower (81.4 kilowatts) and 210 pound-feet (285 Newton-meters).

According to one of these documents, Kia reports the larger battery boosts the model’s range in the Korean testing cycle to 112 miles (180 kilometers) – versus 92 miles (148 km) currently. A leak from a dealer in Germany indicates the Soul EV would be able to go 155 miles (250 km) based on the New European Driving Cycle’s evaluation – as opposed to 132 miles (212 km) now. . . .

EPA currently rates it at 93, which is where IEVS' 113 estimate for the new pack comes from. Not enough, IMO - I think ca. 125 miles/200km EPA at the same or lower price is the new lower limit that is acceptable to a reasonable number of consumers.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

mtndrew1
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Location: Gardena CA

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:54 pm

I'm thinking this capacity improvement must be a stopgap measure until the Niro EV is ready in 2018, at which point the Soul EV is likely to be scrapped.

The Niro shares its structure with the Ioniq, so we know that a 31 kWh (28 usable) pack fits in the car now and Hyundai has been very vocal that a capacity bump is coming by mid 2018.

I expect a 40 kWh Niro EV will dovetail with the cancellation of the Soul EV. The products are too similar.
2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

edatoakrun
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Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:16 am

Living at ~2,100 ft elevation, and ~1600 ft above the valley floor, the one thing I really liked about the Soul was it still having the 80% charge option...

The 2018 Soul EV's range has been certified by the EPA at 111 miles. Combined MPGe has risen from 105 to 108 MPGe and consumption drops from 32 kWh/100 miles to 31 kWh/100 miles.

A large part of the range increase was the deletion of the 80% charge option; if this option is present then 80 and 100% SOC will be averaged for the window sticker number. As such, the '15-'17 Soul EVs would have had a 100% SOC EPA range of ~103 miles. The '17 Soul EV omitted the 80% charge option but Kia didn't pay to have the car recertified until the '18 model year.

So in reality the '18 Soul EV picks up eight miles of real EPA range and 3 MPGe...

,,,Yes. They have removed the 80% option and that accounts for some of the change. But the real changes are equally / more important.

The actual increase in usable battery energy capacity is 11% (from 27kWh to 30kWh)
This is achieved by
Increasing the number of cells by 4% (from 192 to 200 - was 96 cells pairs now 100)
Improving the cell capacity by 7% (from 75Ah to 80Ah)

The 2018 Soul is also more efficient because of the higher voltage, But weighs more because of the larger battery....

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewto ... cab694e2d2
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 4748
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:21 pm

Update on the soul forum RE indicated capacity loss.

Remember, these reports are only of BMS data, with no confirmation of accuracy.

Hopefully, Kia BMS reports are not as wildly inaccurate as the LEAFs LBCs' are...

JejuSoul
...There are 2 cars on this thread doing amazingly well, but the other 20 are all doing much like mine (see chart at link, ~10% average capacity loss in ~30k miles) We are not going to get a new battery under warranty. But if the line stays linear we are only just going to go over the 10 year 160,000km warranty limit. I still assume though that it will degrade less as the car gets older, primarily because you won't drive so far, or so fast.

It is becoming very clear though that the users on this thread are unusual in that we are all looking after our battery health. I have seen / heard numerous reports from USA / Canada / South Korea of cars with very serious battery degradation. These users do the opposite. Charge to 100%, drive like they stole the car, often down to the very bottom of the battery. These batteries are being replaced after 2 or 3 years.

http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewto ... 7662#p7662

Summary of the Soul TMS:

edatoakrun wrote:
="mtndrew1"
Oh thanks for the link! I didn't realize they had updated the Souls and it's always fun to look through the data. I suspect the Wh/mi variance has everything to do with the Soul being shaped like a brick. The Soul's TMS is a cage fan pulling a small amount of cabin air through the pack after the temperature sensors reach a given threshold and/or when quick charging in high ambient temps. I can't imagine, based on what I've witnessed, that it consumes more than 50 Wh for an entire charge/discharge cycle. It increases the HVAC load a little bit too, but I suspect it would be hard to measure. Pretty good cooling bang for the buck.

I expect this would have only minor effects on pack temperatures. Air is an excellent insulator, but a lousy conductor of heat.

The Soul's ~26% larger battery pack may give more benefits in limiting heat build-up, by allowing more efficient lower kW/C rates during both charging and discharging. And (hopefully) their newer batteries will prove to be a bit more resistant to heat degradation than are the LEAFs' are.

Of course, larger pack cost/benefits cut both ways. In terms of absolute capacity loss, the larger Soul batteries may be losing more Wh over ~the same time and miles driven than the LEAFs are.

="mtndrew1
...The '13 Leaf with similar mileage shows nearly 17% degradation from new. Naturally they're not apples to apples but if one takes it as face value the Leaf has experienced 70% more degradation than the Soul in similar conditions...

I don't see how you reached that conclusion. If I got the math right:

The two 2103 LEAFs which baseline at ~500 miles, with one summer of use averaging ~15.5 k miles over just under 15 months, show ~15.3% average capacity loss, or ~3.7 kWh average.

The three 2015 Souls which baseline at ~400 miles, also with a different summer of use averaging just under 12k k miles over just under 11 months, show ~10.5% average capacity loss, or ~3.2 kWh average.

I don't see that very preliminary data, showing slightly over 1% capacity loss per month for the LEAFs, as compared with slightly under 1% capacity loss per month for the Souls, a great achievement for Kia.

If I were to venture a guess, it looks to me like 2015 Phoenix Soul drivers may reach average 70% EOL capacity only a few months longer after delivery, than 2013 Phoenix LEAF drivers will.

="mtndrew1
...As far as liquid TMS goes, the Volt sure looks like it holds up very well in Phoenix with a 9% measured loss over nearly 130,000 miles of driving. https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files ... lt4313.pdf

This has been discussed on the Volt thread. Yes, if you don't use a PHEV's batteries much, and are willing to run the ICE generator to provide energy for battery cooling, even after the pack is discharged, batteries will last a lot longer than they will in a BEV, especially in Phoenix.

Those Volts were driven mostly on gas, and averaged an unimpressive 39.3 mpg.

Meaning hybrid ICEVs driven over the same routes probably could have used about the same amount of gas, without ever plugging them in.
Just a waste of both the battery pack and all the kWh used in charging, for a PHEV used in this application.

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files ... ltEREV.pdf
no condition is permanent

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