User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11474
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:53 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote:My Soul's GOM is always very pessimistic in comparison to what I actually achieve. I don't believe it has ever promised more range than I've actually got from a charge.


I hope this becomes the new norm for all EVs.

Not very useful - it can create needless range anxiety.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

lorenfb
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:04 am

evnow wrote:Not very useful - it can create needless range anxiety.


For me, add to it.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

mtndrew1
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:54 am

tractioninc wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote:My Soul's GOM is always very pessimistic in comparison to what I actually achieve. I don't believe it has ever promised more range than I've actually got from a charge.


I find my Soul's range estimate to be a bit optimistic, but I'm positive that it's due to my driving style. I'm used to driving performance cars and make little attempt to drive more efficiently in my Soul than in my other vehicles.


That's interesting! I think you're in a unique position to compare and contrast the two cars.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range (100% charge @ 20k miles shows 1.3% degradation)

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement (~35% degradation @ ~40k miles)

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

mtndrew1
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:58 am

evnow wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote:My Soul's GOM is always very pessimistic in comparison to what I actually achieve. I don't believe it has ever promised more range than I've actually got from a charge.


I hope this becomes the new norm for all EVs.

Not very useful - it can create needless range anxiety.


The thing I appreciate most about the Soul's GOM is that it doesn't bounce around at all. As another poster said, you can go down a giant hill and it'll just stay static; it always errs on the side of caution so as not to give a false sense of security.

My Volt was similar in this regard but the Soul ratchets the consistency up a notch, at least in my experience.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range (100% charge @ 20k miles shows 1.3% degradation)

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement (~35% degradation @ ~40k miles)

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

GRA
Posts: 10299
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:29 pm

evnow wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote:My Soul's GOM is always very pessimistic in comparison to what I actually achieve. I don't believe it has ever promised more range than I've actually got from a charge.


I hope this becomes the new norm for all EVs.

Not very useful - it can create needless range anxiety.
For me and I expect most people, it's just the opposite. I prefer a hard, guaranteed number to a 'maybe, under this, that and the other conditions' number.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
dgpcolorado
Posts: 3101
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:19 pm

GRA wrote:For me and I expect most people, it's just the opposite. I prefer a hard, guaranteed number to a 'maybe, under this, that and the other conditions' number.
I'd rather dispense with the GOM entirely and have energy units displayed. I can figure out for myself how many energy units it takes to make a trip under varying conditions.

In effect, Tesla does this with a range number based on ideal (or user determined) conditions. If you are getting only 0.8 miles for each standard range mile it is a simple matter to determine the range under those conditions. Those range miles are de facto energy units.

evnow wrote:kWh would be totally lost on 90% of drivers. GOM can be accurate if the drivers put in the route and the car uses all the available information about the route (like Tesla is trying to do)...
Not necessarily. Even with terrain and speed adjustments the algorithm still won't account for changing weather conditions. And it can't accurately predict future speeds without some sort of driver input. At some point the driver is going to have to use some sense or experience when stretching the range. Nevertheless, I suppose this is the approach that will be taken for future range estimates and is a lot better than the current GOMs.

However — at the risk of stating the obvious — as the range of EVs becomes significantly greater, the need to precisely estimate how many miles are left becomes greatly reduced because the vast majority of trips will not come close to exceeding that much greater range. Right?
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
CPO 2014 Tesla S60 Mar 2016
One car, no ICE, at last!
Tesla Referral Code

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2018
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri May 01, 2015 6:20 am

dgpcolorado wrote:I'd rather dispense with the GOM entirely and have energy units displayed. I can figure out for myself how many energy units it takes to make a trip under varying conditions.


I agree, long-term this is the better solution. My Honda Insight has a GOM too, but it is buried a few levels deep into the Multi-Info Display. It too is absurdly optimistic, often claiming that the car can travel over 500 miles on a full tank. The tank is 9 gallons, and I average about 45MPG. I would have to get well over 50MPG, which is hard to say the least. But I never really look at the GOM in the Insight (except to compare it to the Leaf's) because I know I can travel several hundred miles on a tank, and I trust the fuel gauge to be somewhat accurate. I know that if I have about a quarter tank, for example, I can safely travel 75-100 miles.

I think in the end, when we get to a true 200-mile range, the EVs should simply show a rough state-of-charge. I think we should bury both the GOM and the energy units under some menus for those who care. Neither should be prominently displayed on the dash. Drivers will learn their own habits, and instinctively know how far they can travel on the remaining charger. IMHO, that's where we need to be when EVs really go mainstream.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

tractioninc
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:28 am
Location: Atlanta

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri May 01, 2015 7:18 am

I've routinely used the onboard 'range until empty' displayed on my BMWs since the late 90's. I always found that info useful, despite the estimate not being super accurate--likely because my driving style varies a lot by mood and circumstance. The range estimates on our EVs seem noticeably more accurate, but even more sensitive to driver behavior.

Now that I've put over 500 miles on my Soul I've started exploring its limits more (acceleration, braking, cornering, top speed, etc). It's proving surprisingly capable compared to other gas-powered compact cars I've driven hard.
Kia Soul EV, Mazda MX-5 turbo, BMW M3

User avatar
dgpcolorado
Posts: 3101
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri May 01, 2015 7:28 am

tractioninc wrote:...Now that I've put over 500 miles on my Soul I've started exploring its limits more (acceleration, braking, cornering, top speed, etc). It's proving surprisingly capable compared to other gas-powered compact cars I've driven hard.
Is the Soul really in the compact car class? It seems bigger in the pictures (I've never seen one in person before).
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
CPO 2014 Tesla S60 Mar 2016
One car, no ICE, at last!
Tesla Referral Code

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10640
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Official Kia Soul EV thread

Fri May 01, 2015 7:55 am

+1

All the cars I have owned since the mid nineties had a Range To Empty feature and I've always found it useful (and reasonably accurate - particularly at the bottom end)...
It would feel weird NOT to have it these days...

tractioninc wrote:I've routinely used the onboard 'range until empty' displayed on my BMWs since the late 90's. I always found that info useful, despite the estimate not being super accurate--likely because my driving style varies a lot by mood and circumstance.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”