jjeff
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Tue May 24, 2016 6:57 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'd consider the eGolf as my next car with that size pack, but only if they gave it a steering wheel heater. Little things matter too.

Agree, that and heat for all 4 seats, something even the cheapest Leaf(S model) has 8-)
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Tue May 24, 2016 7:03 pm

GRA wrote:
RonDawg wrote: Keep in mind that until the Bolt comes out and is actually tested by the EPA, our own Tony Williams, etc. we don't know if it's going to be the "200 mile" car that GM claims it will. Nissan initially claimed the Leaf was a "100 mile" car (and in some areas still claims it has 160 km range which is the same) and I don't consider GM to be any more credible.

They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.


Yes they have. Also, the Bolt has a 60kWh battery. The upgraded eGolf will have about 36kWh. The Bolt pretty much can't NOT have significantly more range under any given scenario.
~Brian

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LeftieBiker
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Tue May 24, 2016 8:07 pm

jjeff wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:I'd consider the eGolf as my next car with that size pack, but only if they gave it a steering wheel heater. Little things matter too.

Agree, that and heat for all 4 seats, something even the cheapest Leaf(S model) has 8-)


Actually, I think they've dropped rear seat heaters as a standard item, at least on the S and SV - IIRC.
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DarthPuppy
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Tue May 24, 2016 10:39 pm

If I read that correctly, this improved range e-Golf will be out this year as a 2017. Awesome!!! :D

I really liked the e-Golf when I test drove it. And one that has 124 mile 'real world' range should work for my commute. Now to start scrounging my pennies...

RonDawg
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Wed May 25, 2016 5:13 am

GRA wrote:
RonDawg wrote:I don't consider GM to be any more credible.

They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.


But they weren't initially credible about defective ignition switches:

On September 17 2015, General Motors entered into a Deferred Prosecution Agreement with the United States Department of Justice, in which GM admitted that "from in or about the spring of 2012 through in or about February 2014, GM failed to disclose a deadly safety defect to its U.S. regulator... It also falsely represented to consumers that vehicles containing the defect posed no safety concern."[5]


Source: Wikipedia, citing: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ma ... d-deferred

Nobody's died that I know of because their "100 mile Leaf" only made it to the EPA-rated 83 miles or whatever.

Perhaps things at GM will change permanently under Mary Barra's leadership, and that something like this won't happen again (at least while she's boss) but GM finally admitting their mistake didn't occur until some time after she took the helm; Sen. Barbara Boxer even slammed her during her testimony for not knowing why it took so long for this problem to come to light.

In other words, I'll believe it when I see it. I just don't trust car companies anymore...ANY of them. Between Nissan's fudging of actual range of the Leaf, GM (and others) not admitting their vehicles have a serious safety defect until faced with immense public and/or political pressure, Ford/Hyundai/Mitsubishi/others lying about the fuel economy of their cars, and now VW (and possibly others) putting in defeat devices to fool emission testing, I just don't take anything they say at face value anymore.
Last edited by RonDawg on Wed May 25, 2016 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Wed May 25, 2016 5:27 am

RonDawg wrote:
GRA wrote:
RonDawg wrote:I don't consider GM to be any more credible.

They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.


But they weren't initially credible about defective ignition switches:

On September 17 2015, General Motors entered into a Deferred Prosecution Agreement with the United States Department of Justice, in which GM admitted that "from in or about the spring of 2012 through in or about February 2014, GM failed to disclose a deadly safety defect to its U.S. regulator... It also falsely represented to consumers that vehicles containing the defect posed no safety concern."[5]


Source: Wikipedia, citing: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ma ... d-deferred

Nobody's died that I know of because their "100 mile Leaf" only made it to the EPA-rated 83 miles or whatever.

Perhaps things at GM will change permanently under Mary Barra's leadership, and that something like this won't happen again (at least while she's boss) but GM finally admitting their mistake didn't occur until some time after she took the helm; Sen. Barbara Boxer even slammed her during her testimony for not knowing why it took so long for this problem to come to light.

In other words, I'll believe it when I see it.


The ignition switch fiasco was a nightmare for customers and a disaster for GM.

That said, I fail to see how this has any bearing on the discussion at hand. GRA simply stated that GM was credible with regards to range claims. The conclusion being that the Bolt will most likely have a 200+ mile EPA range.
~Brian

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RonDawg
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Wed May 25, 2016 5:29 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:That said, I fail to see how this has any bearing on the discussion at hand. GRA simply stated that GM was credible with regards to range claims. The conclusion being that the Bolt will most likely have a 200+ mile EPA range.


See my added paragraph.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
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Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

pkulak
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Wed May 25, 2016 7:33 am

Sheesh, people. It's some pretty easy math to figure out the Bolt's range since we have the battery capacity. Worst case, assume that 60 kWh is total and there's 52 kWh available. That means you only need to hit 3.8 m/kWh to get 200 miles. In the city, that should be easy. I think people will hit 230 miles in the city, easy. Freeway? It's a true hatch and quite tall, so likely not very aerodynamic. I'm going to guess 192 miles freeway.

GRA
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Wed May 25, 2016 4:37 pm

pkulak wrote:Sheesh, people. It's some pretty easy math to figure out the Bolt's range since we have the battery capacity. Worst case, assume that 60 kWh is total and there's 52 kWh available. That means you only need to hit 3.8 m/kWh to get 200 miles. In the city, that should be easy. I think people will hit 230 miles in the city, easy. Freeway? It's a true hatch and quite tall, so likely not very aerodynamic. I'm going to guess 192 miles freeway.

I think your estimates are credible. We now know the base Model 3 will apparently have less than 60kWh - I don't see how they could go below 50kWh usable, so say a minimum of 55kWh total. Even so, getting 215 miles EPA out of 50 kWh usable will be difficult. It may still do better on the freeway than the Bolt, as it should have better CdA.

Back OT, 200 km/124 miles EPA for the e-Golf may well be viable for a fair number of people as local/commute cars, but only if they drop the base price considerably, to well under $30k. I still think that 150 miles EPA for <=$30k is the point at which the general public will seriously start to consider BEVs, but the 50 extra miles of the 200 mile cars will give them true Regional + ability, as well as buying another 3-5 years of viability as local/commute cars.
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DarthPuppy
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Re: Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

Wed May 25, 2016 10:08 pm

GRA wrote:Back OT, 200 km/124 miles EPA for the e-Golf may well be viable for a fair number of people as local/commute cars, but only if they drop the base price considerably, to well under $30k. I still think that 150 miles EPA for <=$30k is the point at which the general public will seriously start to consider BEVs, but the 50 extra miles of the 200 mile cars will give them true Regional + ability, as well as buying another 3-5 years of viability as local/commute cars.


I think the present price point is viable thanks to incentives. The ICE Golf starts at $20k. The e-Golf starts at $29k. With the federal and California incentives, the e-Golf can be had for a net $19k. And then you have all of the savings of not having to buy gas, do oil changes, longer lasting brakes, etc. And my commute would benefit greatly from HOV access if that is still available.

The flip side is the likely fast depreciation. But that only really bites you if you sell it or it gets into an accident and the insurance sticks you with a small check. Granted, one could reasonably expect an ICE Golf to run 10-20 years and go 200k+ miles. So we aren't apples-apples. In theory, the e-golf should be able to do that too, just with replacing the batteries, which is probably less than the gas, oil changes, etc. accumulate to by the time the battery needs to be changed. However, as noted elsewhere on this forum, people are reluctant to invest in batteries for a number of reasons.

The above of course assumes VW doesn't jack the price up on the 2017.

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