Stoaty
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:54 am

evnow wrote:LOL - because the infrastructure is so non-existent. It is a so-cal compliance car !

+1

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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:46 pm

evnow wrote:
GRA wrote:Which is just what they should be doing right now, expanding the sales region as the fueling infrastructure expands, because they obviously shouldn't be leased in areas where it makes no sense, yet.

LOL - because the infrastructure is so non-existent. It is a so-cal compliance car !

Sure, right now. By next year, as the number of H2 fueling stations grows around the state (they'll be building one in my city and several others beyond the one already in the Bay Area), it will be a California compliance car, along with the Honda and Toyota. I should add that this is a faster rate than Tesla Superchargers have been added in the state, and FCEVs are better suited to road trips in any case owing to shorter fueling times and no heater effect on range.

The station they'll build in Truckee (that's one that Toyota is providing financing for) will enable Bay Area to North Lake Tahoe/Reno area trips quite nicely, even if for some reason the stations scheduled for Sacramento don't get built (none in the state capital, where politicians from the Governor on down can see them and hold photo ops? Yeah, right). The station at Harris Ranch will connect Northern and Southern California. Socal already has a fair amount of stations, but the coverage area will be expanded considerably just in the next year. Whether they go beyond California will be determined by what other states do, as well as how they compete against BEVs/PHEVs, just as should be the case. I expect there'll be one in Barstow or thereabouts to let people drive to Vegas, but don't remember offhand if one is specifically included for next year. But I expect one will be built in Vegas sooner rather than later, just as Model S customers were accommodated early; Casino owners want well-heeled clientele, and the people leasing FCEVs for the next few years are in the same income brackets as Model S owners.
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TomT
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:09 pm

Which makes no sense... What would said well-heeled clientele drive a decidedly downscale and cheap-level Tucson when they can drive a very upscale and nicely appointed Model S? I simply do not see said clientele in a Tuscon.

GRA wrote:But I expect one will be built in Vegas sooner rather than later, just as Model S customers were accommodated early; Casino owners want well-heeled clientele, and the people leasing FCEVs for the next few years are in the same income brackets as Model S owners.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:08 am

TomT wrote:Which makes no sense... What would said well-heeled clientele drive a decidedly downscale and cheap-level Tucson when they can drive a very upscale and nicely appointed Model S? I simply do not see said clientele in a Tuscon.

GRA wrote:But I expect one will be built in Vegas sooner rather than later, just as Model S customers were accommodated early; Casino owners want well-heeled clientele, and the people leasing FCEVs for the next few years are in the same income brackets as Model S owners.


If they build the H2 stations everywhere, there is an advantage over the current "downscale" Rav4 EV, however the addition of a Supercharger inlet quickly tilts things in favor of Rav4 EV.

Now with the "open source" Tesla, any company can build a Supercharger anywhere for pennies on the dollar of a hydrogen one. By the way, no company is going to build H2 stations without PLENTY of handouts from you, the taxpayer.

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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:12 am

TonyWilliams wrote:Now with the "open source" Tesla, any company can build a Supercharger anywhere for pennies on the dollar of a hydrogen one. By the way, no company is going to build H2 stations without PLENTY of handouts from you, the taxpayer.

This to me is the most exciting near-term benefit of Tesla going open source.

For H2 to do any better than CNG, the price of refueling will have to come way down.
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:26 am

My point was that the "well-heeled" clientele he referenced is not likely to be driving a vehicle like a Rav4, Tuscon or the like, regardless of what fuel powers it...

TonyWilliams wrote:If they build the H2 stations everywhere, there is an advantage over the current "downscale" Rav4 EV, however the addition of a Supercharger inlet quickly tilts things in favor of Rav4 EV.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2017 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

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evnow
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:42 pm

TomT wrote:Which makes no sense... What would said well-heeled clientele drive a decidedly downscale and cheap-level Tucson when they can drive a very upscale and nicely appointed Model S? I simply do not see said clientele in a Tuscon.

GRA wrote:But I expect one will be built in Vegas sooner rather than later, just as Model S customers were accommodated early; Casino owners want well-heeled clientele, and the people leasing FCEVs for the next few years are in the same income brackets as Model S owners.


I think it is likely they will buy an FCV. Afterall they like gambling and are poor at figuring out the odds ;)
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:01 pm

TomT wrote:
GRA wrote:But I expect one will be built in Vegas sooner rather than later, just as Model S customers were accommodated early; Casino owners want well-heeled clientele, and the people leasing FCEVs for the next few years are in the same income brackets as Model S owners.

Which makes no sense... What would said well-heeled clientele drive a decidedly downscale and cheap-level Tucson when they can drive a very upscale and nicely appointed Model S? I simply do not see said clientele in a Tuscon.

Maybe we should ask the first person to do so in the U.S.? From Hyundai press release, via ABG:

"TUSTIN, Calif., June 10, 2014 – Today, Tustin Hyundai's Dealer Principal, John Patterson, proudly handed over the keys to Hyundai's first mass-produced Tucson Fuel Cell CUV in a ceremony with Hyundai executives and Timothy Bush, the first Hyundai Fuel Cell customer.

"My family is certainly excited to be doing their part in driving a zero-emission vehicle that benefits the environment, and at the same time, reduces our nation's dependence on imported fuels," said Mr. Bush. "What's great about the Tucson CUV is that its day-to-day utility is virtually identical to the gasoline version, so we don't have to compromise our lifestyle in the process; I can easily fit all of our family's things in the back. The attractive $499 lease rate with unlimited free hydrogen fuel made the decision to drive a fuel cell even easier."

Full ABG article and press release here:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/11/hyun ... rnia-cust/
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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:08 pm

GRA wrote:The attractive $499 lease rate with unlimited free hydrogen fuel made the decision to drive a fuel cell even easier."


At the unsubsidized lease of $1499, I wonder how H2 green he would like to be?

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Re: Official Hyundai Tucson FCEV thread

Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:22 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
GRA wrote:The attractive $499 lease rate with unlimited free hydrogen fuel made the decision to drive a fuel cell even easier."


At the unsubsidized lease of $1499, I wonder how H2 green he would like to be?

Not very, IMO. And the same holds true for most people if they could only buy or lease any EV unsubsidized - see here:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17059

I imagine Tesla's use of funny math to claim that the Model S only costs ~$500 month to lease when the real number is twice that is another confirmation of that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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