User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:56 am

lorenfb wrote:
Tesla is an anomaly in that the MS/MX are NOT purchased solely for transportation (as you imply), as will be the case for the M3.
So to use those vehicles as representative of a relatively growth BEV transportation vehicle market, is somewhat short sighted.

So a Bolt is solely being used for transportation and a Model 3 is being used as a garden statue in some case? Please define.

You can't compare a Chevy Bolt with a Model 3.


Obviously not, as the Bolt has not been designed as a lower-end luxury vehicle. With regard to the M3, many reservation holders
perceive that they are buying a slightly smaller MS with its basic features for $35K, i.e. an awaking for many will occur when
their $35K M3 finally arrives in 2019/2020 outdated.


It's a different car and has advantages in some areas and compromises in others, in a way it is a smaller S. How is it going to be outdated in 2019/20? What logic are you trying to apply, that a new S makes the model 3 outdated? I guess that applies to the the S as well. People that have taken delivery on a M3 feel like they have a smaller S so I suppose they are satisfied. How much time have you spent inside each of these models and behind the wheel driving them?

As a side note the LEAF was outdated the day the very first one was delivered to CA. It had a 5 plus year dated NAV system and telematics and some of the most dated features of cars that are much older. Not to mention nothing could be updated of corrected on previous models. Each new version was a tweak on the same car until now which one can say is dated and behind the curve.

lorenfb
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:14 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
With regard to the M3, many reservation holders
perceive that they are buying a slightly smaller MS with its basic features for $35K, i.e. an awaking for many will occur when
their $35K M3 finally arrives in 2019/2020 outdated.


It's a different car and has advantages in some areas and compromises in others, in a way it is a smaller S. How is it going to be outdated in 2019/20?


Right, Tesla didn't "position" the M3 product properly, i.e. it's perceived by reservation holders as a less expensive MS at $35K which most
won't see a delivery until 2019/2020. Then at that time frame, other automotive OEMs will have marketed more competitive products,
which obviates having any type of reservation for any product longer that a few months.

EVDRIVER wrote:People that have taken delivery on a M3 feel like they have a smaller S so I suppose they are satisfied. .


Yes, which in the short run will affect MS sales.

EVDRIVER wrote:As a side note the LEAF was outdated the day the very first one was delivered to CA.


My Leaf still serves my transportation needs well based on what they were four years ago and now. Features such as OTA updates/features
and AP provide little to no value presently and I didn't have to pay for them "packaged-in" at lease/purchase time.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

SageBrush
Posts: 2790
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:21 am

@lorenfb,
As an expert in all things Tesla and its customers, you leave a lot to be desired.

Not bad as a troll, but Ed has you beat.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:03 pm

lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
With regard to the M3, many reservation holders
perceive that they are buying a slightly smaller MS with its basic features for $35K, i.e. an awaking for many will occur when
their $35K M3 finally arrives in 2019/2020 outdated.


It's a different car and has advantages in some areas and compromises in others, in a way it is a smaller S. How is it going to be outdated in 2019/20?


Right, Tesla didn't "position" the M3 product properly, i.e. it's perceived by reservation holders as a less expensive MS at $35K which most
won't see a delivery until 2019/2020. Then at that time frame, other automotive OEMs will have marketed more competitive products,
which obviates having any type of reservation for any product longer that a few months.

EVDRIVER wrote:People that have taken delivery on a M3 feel like they have a smaller S so I suppose they are satisfied. .


Yes, which in the short run will affect MS sales.

EVDRIVER wrote:As a side note the LEAF was outdated the day the very first one was delivered to CA.


My Leaf still serves my transportation needs well based on what they were four years ago and now. Features such as OTA updates/features
and AP provide little to no value presently and I didn't have to pay for them "packaged-in" at lease/purchase time.



Please show me how Tesla positions the model 3 in any way. Yes we know your LEAF meets your transportation needs but that was never the question and it was still outdated BEFORE it was sold in many aspects, that's an absolute fact. That does not mean it was not a good EV when released but it had major rush to market technology hyped to be ground breaking. The Clarion "Telematics" system was a bad stop gap to say politely. Automatic updates built into pricing? So now you are on the Tesla finance team and you know how they build pricing models? Since you have their CBA in front of you then you know it was spot on because it seems everyone wants one over every other EV on the market today. So have you even sat in a Tesla or driven one? I expect you to ignore this question unless you just ran out this weekend to do so.

Tesla is a success, If they file BK tomorrow they are a success. People that buy them for many reasons unlike other EVs and cars and they love them. Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO. If all model 3s had issues I'm confident Elon would resolve them, something other companies just don't care about. I think much of your disdain for them is a combination of ignorance to the company and product envy. Please go drive one.

lorenfb
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:21 am

Leaf 2, a major M3 competitor in 2018?

Many Tesla Model 3 buyers are likely to be performance luxury car buyers. As much as anything else, they are buying the car for the prestige and image. For these buyers, Nissan Leaf is not an alternative. However, this is just one segment of market. For many potential customers, other product attributes, especially price, may be an important issue.


However, once Tesla largely runs through its Model 3 reservation queue in 2018, we expect Leaf to make things difficult for Model 3. In 2019, when Model 3 starts becoming available outside of the reservation queue, it will be competing with 2019 Model Nissan Leaf which will have 60 kWh batteries as well as the next version of the ProPilot Assist technology. In such an environment, it will become increasingly difficult for Tesla to move volumes at premium pricing. In 2019, we will not be surprised if more Leafs get sold worldwide than Model 3s.


Nissan Leaf, for the first time in the market, has a respectable semi-autonomous feature set at budget prices. We believe that this will be a major draw for those customers who may seek autonomy but do not have the budget to buy a Model 3. If our assessment is accurate and Tesla does not sell many entry level Model 3’s due to low margins, Model 3 reservation holders could move to Leaf because of various factors including sticker shock and better availability.


https://seekingalpha.com/article/4138734-nissan-leaf-will-likely-wipeout-significant-part-model-3-worldwide-demand?auth_param=1adagi:1d64bte:1b851e3b2f1d24f6c2dc7e243705c6f2&uprof=44&dr=1
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

lorenfb
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:40 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
Please show me how Tesla positions the model 3 in any way.


Given the M3's cost of production with overhead, i.e. greater than $35K, and with its essentially same MS features, it's positioned as a lower
cost MS and not an entry level BEV.

EVDRIVER wrote:Yes we know your LEAF meets your transportation needs but that was never the question and it was still outdated BEFORE it was sold in many aspects, that's an absolute fact.


That's a naive argument. As long as a product fits a consumer's needs and is priced properly, it's a viable product for that market segment.
As an example, the original flip-phone still sells well against smartphones.


EVDRIVER wrote:Automatic updates built into pricing? So now you are on the Tesla finance team and you know how they build pricing models?


Luckily Elon doesn't have you as his Marketing VP, given your lack of understanding of what features and support need to be factored
into a product's final price.

EVDRIVER wrote:Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO.


A bit much, isn't it?
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

scottf200
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:45 am

Cool thermal pictures here...

Reddit: Model 3 Thermal Images submitted an hour ago by mechrockModel 3 Reservation Holder

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/co ... al_images/
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:07 pm

Zythryn wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Small correction: Supercharger access is 20 cents a kWh in California, but it varies by state. I'll pay about 13 cents a kWh in Colorado

Major correction:

Whatever are the teaser rates it has announced, TSLA's only commitment to model 3 buyers is that it will impose whatever fees it wants to for charging at its DC sites.


You are just too much sometimes.
These are the rates that are charged. Model 3 owners have already been charged, and paid for SuperChargers.
He is truly tireless. Musk could announce a cure for cancer and eda would find something to complain about.

Very interesting. Just read a Seeking Alpha report on how the LEAF 2 is going to steal market share away from Model 3 because apparently there is a tremendous demand for medium range urban commuters and second vehicles that don't need any of that fancy Supercharging rubbish.
Seeking alpha is 99% negative about Tesla. It is their thing. I wouldn't take them seriously. Tesla has a lot of issues but they will always paint them as worse than they are. I don't think the site is really worth much.

--------------

As a guy who dumped my leaf because its range was total garbage in the cold, I still think people make too big a deal about it. Too many consumers think they need a car that can go very far for long range trips. We have a van for that. My city car has over 40k miles on it now and I can count on one hand the number of times it has been more than about 20 miles from my house.

Although if we're being honest, filling for gas is very fast. I filled my tank up today in approximately 3 minutes. That's total time from when I got off to the road to when I was back on it. 4 minutes absolute tops, it was all within one song. I am probably 99th percentile (seriously, I pride myself in this) for efficiency when doing regular tasks like gas in a car, but it's a few minutes and then another week of driving. It's still pretty convenient.

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:09 pm

lorenfb wrote:Right, Tesla didn't "position" the M3 product properly, i.e. it's perceived by reservation holders as a less expensive MS at $35K which most
won't see a delivery until 2019/2020. Then at that time frame, other automotive OEMs will have marketed more competitive products,
which obviates having any type of reservation for any product longer that a few months.
Like what, precisely? What manufacturer is coming out with a decently ranged 5 second 0-60 EV next year? Will it have a strong and fast-maturing charging infrastructure at that time as well? Nissan sure isn't bothering, they've completely given up trying to have an EV that people actually lust after. Chevy is the only brand that has a chance near-term, but they've not announced a competitor for the Model 3 that is on the same level.

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 pm

Just went to the Tesla store in Walnut Creek, there is a line out the door and around to see the 3. You can only have 2 min in the car now becase if the huge demand to see it. Also may people there looking at the s and x.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”