Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:26 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Tesla submitted EPA certification showing the LR 3 pack will accept ~89.4 kWh from a full charge:

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 148&flag=1

...Everyone who reads that document knows that's how much electricity was supplied from the wall and thus doesn't include charging losses...

Actually, the energy accepted on recharge comes from the grid, as supplied by the EVSE.

I used the term grid-to-road efficiency rather than Overall Trip Efficiency as I thought it more self-explanatory.


I'm surprised you would be that considerate to Tesla when using such a worthless metric. Had the EPA charged the model 3 and then let it sit there for a week, the vampire drain would've failed miserably against your grid-to-road efficiency.

After 4 weeks with my model 3, my monthly electricity consumption has only risen by ~90kwh, which is exactly how much electricity is consumed from my wife using the leaf to commute to work, since she no longer drives her gas car. This means that my model 3 is using roughly the same amount of electricity as the leaf to drive the same number of miles (despite the vampire drain AND higher consumption from driving faster!), yielding effectively the same grid-to-road efficiency.

Your narrative does not fit reality.

edatoakrun wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:...The range test results are consistent with only about 66 kWh being available for traction before shutdown, which also happens to be what the 3's BMS reportedly stated.

~66/~89.4= ~74% grid-to-road efficiency, which is quite frankly terrible...

For example, in AVTA testing a 2014 Tesla Model S 85 kWh averaged ~89% efficiency over three test cycles:

2014 Tesla Model S 85 kWh
Advanced Vehicle Testing – Baseline Vehicle Testing Results...

(A+/C) Overall Trip Efficiency 15: 90% 88% 89%...

15. Overall Vehicle Efficiency is calculated by dividing the DC energy out of the battery (A+) by the AC energy from the EVSE (C).

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files ... models.pdf

BTW, while I don't mind explaining things to you, if you continue be as obnoxious in your replies as in the one above, you will join SageBrush in onanistic conversation...


The only reason I'm even responding to you is that I don't want you to think that you've made some sort of profound point that has left the opposition speechless.

Your use of AVTA test results and ignoring of other's explanations of 2nd order losses having 1st order impact on energy consumption shows you don't fully understand the material you're referencing. So you'll have to excuse me if I'm thrilled to hear you withhold your explanations so that I may participate "in onanistic conversation".
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333
... awaiting firmware update

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:37 pm

For heaven's sake, ignore Ed the talking troll.

We know the Wh/mile meter was inaccurate during the hypermile run. I'm curious if it is also inaccurate during more typical driving. I plan to use a SuperCharger on Tuesday, so I will have a chance to to validate the Wh/mile meter then since I'll be provided a kWh report. Does anybody know if the kWh charged are from the meter or a calculated amount of energy into the battery ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Zythryn
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:36 am

SageBrush wrote:For heaven's sake, ignore Ed the talking troll.

We know the Wh/mile meter was inaccurate during the hypermile run. I'm curious if it is also inaccurate during more typical driving. I plan to use a SuperCharger on Tuesday, so I will have a chance to to validate the Wh/mile meter then since I'll be provided a kWh report. Does anybody know if the kWh charged are from the meter or a calculated amount of energy into the battery ?


I don’t know but have my guess :)
My guess is that the rate charged is the amount of kWh delivered by the charger/nozzle. While the amount the car reports is the amount the batteries actually get.
As these are DC power, I’m thinking those are identical? At least very nearly so.

Unfortunately I haven’t been on a long enough trip yet to make a good efficiency test.
The dashboard has shown ne around 210-220 Wh/mile most of the time, which would get me more range than the rated number.
Last edited by Zythryn on Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:09 am

^^
It should not be hard to figure out since every 1% SoC is 0.78 kWh, +/- hysteresis and whatever. Surely way less than the 10% charging losses we are wondering about.
I just have to remember to track the SoC change on Tuesday ;-)
Last edited by SageBrush on Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

sparky
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:27 pm

I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:46 pm

sparky wrote:I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.

and for old timers: 60 mph (one mile a minute) throughput. I think that matches most Google estimates for trips in general for cars, EV or otherwise. Which just matches what we already know from arithmetic and experience: the SuperCharging is folded into breaks most people take anyway.
Last edited by SageBrush on Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Zythryn
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:48 pm

sparky wrote:I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.


Mix of city, highway and highway rush hour traffic gives great efficiency.
If I were to do a long distance highway trip I am sure it would be less efficient.
Driving the 3 has been amazing, I have loved every moment.
My wife picked hers up a few days ago and I have accompanied two friends in the last two weeks to get theirs!
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

opencar
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jun 2011
Location: San Diego Coastal

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:46 am

Zythryn wrote:
sparky wrote:I should also do this charge test. I've lots of practice doing a run up and down CA; SoCal<->NorCal. 7700 miles in 5 months.
Today was my best run in terms of time: 337 miles in 340 mins. Stopped once to charge 20 mins after 160 miles so, 8:1 drive:pause ratio. Pretty good but of course my efficiency is nowhere near yours Zythryn.
The 3 is a great EV and a fantastic car. Really loving it.


Mix of city, highway and highway rush hour traffic gives great efficiency.
If I were to do a long distance highway trip I am sure it would be less efficient.
Driving the 3 has been amazing, I have loved every moment.
My wife picked hers up a few days ago and I have accompanied two friends in the last two weeks to get theirs!


Agree - the 3 ended up blowing away my expectations. For consumer products (albeit an expensive one) i put it on my personal ranking list of the original ipod touch, and the original directv tivo unit as breakthrough devices. Can't believe your efficiency - my lifetime for 3,000 miles is now at 270 wh/mi.
1st bar- 22K, 27mo, Ah=55.29
2nd- 33K, 37mo, Ah=51.54
3rd- 41K, 46mo, Ah=47.47
4th- 49K, 53mo, Ah=43.28
Warranty Lizard- 50K, Oct'15
Jun'16- 56K, Ah=66.14
Aug'17- 70K, 22mo, Ah=59.9
Aug'18- 79K, 36mo, Ah=56.4

Zythryn
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:53 am

opencar wrote:Agree - the 3 ended up blowing away my expectations. For consumer products (albeit an expensive one) i put it on my personal ranking list of the original ipod touch, and the original directv tivo unit as breakthrough devices. Can't believe your efficiency - my lifetime for 3,000 miles is now at 270 wh/mi.



Lifetime average is lower, I'll have to check what exactly. This is just over the last 10 days or so.
Winter will give us a big hit, how much, we shall have to see.
I have always admired the efficiency of the Leaf, it is wonderful to finally be living with that efficiency :D
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

scottf200
Posts: 1781
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Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:30 am

Edmunds
Published on Jun 14, 2018

Did Tesla's over-the-air firmware update change the braking distance of our Model 3? Dan Edmunds, director of vehicle testing for Edmunds, heads back to the track with our long-term Model 3 for a second round of brake tests following a firmware update (2018.18.13) Tesla released late in May. The update is said to address an issue with the Model 3's braking system after some third-party organizations reported exceptionally long stopping distances for the vehicle in testing. We changed nothing else on our car, using the same brakes, the same tires, set at the same tire pressure (45 psi), and the exact same testing protocol we always do. Here's what we found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l3qn53iuvE

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