User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11429
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:25 pm

Durandal wrote:I think the extra thought comes from thinking about how to phrase the command as many voice command systems are not very intuitive.

I don't know about others, but the most non-driving thing I do when driving is changing what I'm listening to (skipping ads on podcasts or changing songs/artists etc). Those voice commands work ok - even with Android Auto (most of the time). Even Volt doesn't have any physical buttons for these common tasks.

As to temperature control - I probably change them once in 6 months. Don't need buttons for that.

Need commands for simple climate control options like - start AC, stop AC, Start Heater, Stop Heater, Start anti-fog, stop anti-fog. (They may even be there already in Volt, but haven't tried). But these functions I do MUCH less often than audio controls .

There are simply no buttons to easily select an album among the thousands available. It is either touch screen or voice. Choose your poison.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

GRA
Posts: 7458
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:14 pm

evnow wrote:
Durandal wrote:I think the extra thought comes from thinking about how to phrase the command as many voice command systems are not very intuitive.

I don't know about others, but the most non-driving thing I do when driving is changing what I'm listening to (skipping ads on podcasts or changing songs/artists etc). Those voice commands work ok - even with Android Auto (most of the time). Even Volt doesn't have any physical buttons for these common tasks.
As the research paper I posed upthread (at least I think it was in this thread) shows, such commands involve far more distraction than simpler ones. Basic voice commands probably don't add a great deal of task loading compared to manual ones, but I'm not up on that research so can't say for certain.

evnow wrote:As to temperature control - I probably change them once in 6 months. Don't need buttons for that.

Need commands for simple climate control options like - start AC, stop AC, Start Heater, Stop Heater, Start anti-fog, stop anti-fog. (They may even be there already in Volt, but haven't tried). But these functions I do MUCH less often than audio controls .

There are simply no buttons to easily select an album among the thousands available. It is either touch screen or voice. Choose your poison

Seeing as how my hearing sucks so bad now I can't tell one artist from another or often what song's playing, I've basically had to abandon listening to music, so that's no longer an issue. But we obviously use HVAC controls very differently, and I take it you're one of the group that likes ACC, while I'm definitely in the other camp. Depending on the nature of the steering wheel controls , what can be mapped to them and as others have mentioned, what you might have to do without to get them, HVAC on those may or may not be okay, and the only way to say for certain is to try them. I still prefer dedicated controls for simplicity, reliability, and ease of repair, but can live with programmable controls if they're well done (i.e. intuitive).
Last edited by GRA on Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
lpickup
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 312310
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact: Website

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:07 am

evnow wrote:There are simply no buttons to easily select an album among the thousands available. It is either touch screen or voice. Choose your poison.


This statement gets to the crux of the issue.

Selecting albums & songs from a library of thousands is what I would call "new functionality". It is a complex operation and provides a level of functionality that frankly would require too many specialized buttons, displays that would not be intuitive.

I can think of one other function that may be approaching vestigial status: the radio tuner dial. While an actual "dial" is certainly intuitive and simple enough that it can be implemented as a dial, it doesn't represent how we use the infotainment systems in our car these days. So you could make an argument for ditching that particular control (I know there are some hard core FM radio junkies that will disagree here).

But certain functions (adjusting temp up & down for example) are so simple that the most intuitive interface is a dial or a slider....and a real one, not a virtual one on a screen that you have to hunt & peck for or get into that "mode" on the screen and hit a relatively small target, or maybe remove your gloves to use.

And sure, maybe voice commands could work, but let's take the example of adjusting the volume of the music. Am I going to have to call out a specific number between 1 and 100? If I say "volume up" is it going to jump up by 1? 10? How do I do fine vs. coarse control? Do I need to hit a button to get into voice control mode in the first place, and does it mute the audio during voice commands so it can understand me? How do I do fine vs. coarse control? When I'm adjusting the volume in the car, the ability to fine tune it with touch without taking my eyes off the road is extremely important.

Now I realize that clearly audio volume is a prime candidate for steering wheel control for this purpose, but it illustrates the point I'm trying to make which is that sometimes complicated GUIs or voice commands are the answer, but for some basic functions, a good old fashioned dedicated knob or slider is really the best solution. And then I don't have to worry about whether the command is "anti-fog" as you called it or "defrost" as I call it! ;)
...Lance

Coulis Red 2016 SV (312310)
Delivered: 12/23/16
Glacier Pearl 2012 SL (016138)
Delivered: 12/9/11; traded in 12/23/16
NOGA$4ME Blog

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:34 am

^^^

I still have yet to use any voice system that doesn't piss me right off in very short order.

You should see how bluetooth is on my toyota sienna. It would almost make you take a gas can to the car. I was trying to set it up a couple weeks back and when I'd give it the name of the phone it would say "Sorry, that sounds too much like". I eventually had to literally use an expletive as my new phone's name because everything I said "sounded too much like".

Any time I get voice prompt on any phone system I just mumble and smash buttons until I get to a real human. I'd rather have a person who barely speaks english than a voice control system. I still believe they will eventually get good enough.

I drove a tesla earlier this month and the guy said what song? So we said our song name (very, very popular song), and the system kept coming up with the right artist but the totally wrong song name. He had to finally type it in. That's also why I gave up using siri to dictate texts for me. It's just better to type because it works 100% of the time.

Zythryn
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:31 am

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:^^^
....

I drove a tesla earlier this month and the guy said what song? So we said our song name (very, very popular song), and the system kept coming up with the right artist but the totally wrong song name. He had to finally type it in. That's also why I gave up using siri to dictate texts for me. It's just better to type because it works 100% of the time.


Actually, that likely wasn't due to not identifying the song correctly.
The streaming music system, currently, when you say "play [song name] by [artist name]". Is very good at playing that specific song. The problem is, it creates a streaming radio station based on that song.
The first time you ask for a specific song, in my experience, it gets it right 100% of the time. However, any subsequent requests for the same song will start playing the same streaming station, which is almost never on that exact song.
For songs I listen to often I have set playlists. Album names work very well. Unfortunately song names don't work more than once.
I'd love to see that fixed, but since I haven't found anything else as close to it, I'm happy with it.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt & Leaf
Current owner of Model S
http://www.netzeromn.com

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:50 am

Zythryn wrote:The first time you ask for a specific song, in my experience, it gets it right 100% of the time. However, any subsequent requests for the same song will start playing the same streaming station, which is almost never on that exact song.
For songs I listen to often I have set playlists. Album names work very well. Unfortunately song names don't work more than once.
I'd love to see that fixed, but since I haven't found anything else as close to it, I'm happy with it.
This is the standard behavior of a free-tier Slacker account, which is what the car uses by default. You can fix this by paying for a premium Slacker account and then using that login/password in the car.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17)Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Model 3 reservation
(Probably no LEAF2 for me)

Zythryn
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:54 pm

jlv wrote:
Zythryn wrote:The first time you ask for a specific song, in my experience, it gets it right 100% of the time. However, any subsequent requests for the same song will start playing the same streaming station, which is almost never on that exact song.
For songs I listen to often I have set playlists. Album names work very well. Unfortunately song names don't work more than once.
I'd love to see that fixed, but since I haven't found anything else as close to it, I'm happy with it.
This is the standard behavior of a free-tier Slacker account, which is what the car uses by default. You can fix this by paying for a premium Slacker account and then using that login/password in the car.


Unfortunately it seems to be the same when signed into the premium account. Although it has been quite some time since I chacked...
Previous owner of Prius, Volt & Leaf
Current owner of Model S
http://www.netzeromn.com

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

I remembered that slightly incorrectly. It partially works...
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... nce.87833/
You cannot use the backward track button when listening to a station even with Premium. It only works for playlists.

If I hadn't starting using a Spotify family plan last year I'd probably get Slacker, but at this point...
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17)Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Model 3 reservation
(Probably no LEAF2 for me)

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11429
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:08 pm

lpickup wrote:And then I don't have to worry about whether the command is "anti-fog" as you called it or "defrost" as I call it! ;)


It doesn't have to be one or the other. They can map a hundred words to the same function.

Volume situation can be handled similarly. Just think of what you would tell someone to do it, instead of you doing it yourself. "Increase the volume a bit" or "I can' hear that. Can you make it higher" ?

I've been impressed with what Amazon has done. Though I don't use Echo (yet) - I've heard very good reports of it. It can pickup commands from the other side of the room in noisy environments (even when the song is playing). Amazon tablets consistently recognize what my toddlers tell it to play - and the competitors (like MS or Google) hardly ever do. No, I don't work for Amazon.

The reason voice commands on autos suck is that they don't go through continuous improvements.

BTW, Amazon Music when used through Android Auto (in Volt) picks the songs, albums, artists correct 90%+ of the time. (Hello by Adele vs Hello by Lionel Ritchie for eg).

Ofcourse Amazon music still has issues when it comes to Indian music. So, I can see how these systems probably suck in non-US context.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

User avatar
lpickup
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 312310
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact: Website

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:24 pm

evnow wrote:It doesn't have to be one or the other. They can map a hundred words to the same function.


They can...doesn't mean they will...

evnow wrote:Volume situation can be handled similarly. Just think of what you would tell someone to do it, instead of you doing it yourself. "Increase the volume a bit" or "I can' hear that. Can you make it higher" ?


FIrst of all, that actually sounds pretty cumbersome compared to turning a knob (even pushing a volume up/down button is less convenient than twisting a dial). Not to mention that it is very disruptive to whatever you are listening to (particularly if when going into voice command mode the volume is lowered/muted as I think I've heard elsewhere), not to mention the other occupants of the car. For example when my wife is asleep in the passenger seat, I'm not sure she would appreciate me asking the car aloud if I it could adjust the temperature a bit higher or lower, or adjust the delay on the intermittent wipers, or something like that.

I'll reiterate: for certain functions (in my opinion) the most simple and intuitive "interface" is a simple knob or button, not a voice command. You may feel differently, and you are entitled to that opinion, but I am entitled to mine, and it would be a really tough sell to convince me that voice commands or a touch screen interface are an improvement over simple dials/buttons.
...Lance

Coulis Red 2016 SV (312310)
Delivered: 12/23/16
Glacier Pearl 2012 SL (016138)
Delivered: 12/9/11; traded in 12/23/16
NOGA$4ME Blog

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”