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evnow
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:50 pm

lpickup wrote:I'll reiterate: for certain functions (in my opinion) the most simple and intuitive "interface" is a simple knob or button, not a voice command. You may feel differently, and you are entitled to that opinion, but I am entitled to mine, and it would be a really tough sell to convince me that voice commands or a touch screen interface are an improvement over simple dials/buttons.

Knobs and Buttons are just a historical technical accident. Didn't have to be that way. Nothing "intuitive" about it. Try it with toddlers.
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DanCar
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:53 pm

evnow wrote:
lpickup wrote:I'll reiterate: for certain functions (in my opinion) the most simple and intuitive "interface" is a simple knob or button, not a voice command. You may feel differently, and you are entitled to that opinion, but I am entitled to mine, and it would be a really tough sell to convince me that voice commands or a touch screen interface are an improvement over simple dials/buttons.

Knobs and Buttons are just a historical technical accident. Didn't have to be that way. Nothing "intuitive" about it. Try it with toddlers.
On an old blackberry device I could type crazy fast with my thumbs because of the tactical feel. Can't get half as fast with a screen with no tactical feel. Voice commands could be more useful if it works reliably in a loud environment with uncommon controls. I doubt voice will be as easy as buttons on the steering wheel, unless we are talking about driverless.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:59 pm

DanCar wrote:On an old blackberry device I could type crazy fast with my thumbs because of the tactical feel. Can't get half as fast with a screen with no tactical feel. Voice commands could be more useful if it works reliably in a loud environment with uncommon controls. I doubt voice will be as easy as buttons on the steering wheel, unless we are talking about driverless.

I've seen youngsters type crazy fast using gesture/swipe keyboards.

All said and done - natural language (voice) will remain the most natural input - duh ! Perfected over 50,000 years.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:04 pm

evnow wrote:
DanCar wrote:On an old blackberry device I could type crazy fast with my thumbs because of the tactical feel. Can't get half as fast with a screen with no tactical feel. Voice commands could be more useful if it works reliably in a loud environment with uncommon controls. I doubt voice will be as easy as buttons on the steering wheel, unless we are talking about driverless.

I've seen youngsters type crazy fast using gesture/swipe keyboards.

All said and done - natural language (voice) will remain the most natural input - duh ! Perfected over 50,000 years.
If voice input where so much better, we'd be talking to our computers instead of typing, mousing and swiping.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:14 am

DanCar wrote:If voice input where so much better, we'd be talking to our computers instead of typing, mousing and swiping.


We'd be talking to EVERYTHING! We wouldn't have TV remotes. My toaster oven would not have a dial to set the temperature & timer. My washing machine would not have a dial and buttons to select the mode. There would be no light switches in my home. There would not be a doorbell by my front door--visitors would just speak "knock knock" I suppose.

Certain functions are simply better suited to simple interfaces. Voice is a method of communication that is way overkill for many (but not all) functions you would want to access in a car, and like it or not, but over reliance on voice is going to turn at least some (and maybe many) people away.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:53 am

Just in case anyone might be interested in the actual thread topic...

Tesla Model 3: Exclusive first look at Tesla’s new battery pack architecture

...The standard 50 kWh Model 3 battery pack is made of 2,976 of those cells in groups of 31 cells per “brick”. The bricks go into 4 separate modules (2 modules of 23 bricks and 2 modules of 25 bricks).

That pack is going into production later this year. Currently, Tesla is producing a 74 kWh ‘long range’ battery pack, which consists of 4416 cells in groups of 46 cells per brick and the same brick distribution in the 4 modules...

https://electrek.co/2017/08/24/tesla-mo ... hitecture/
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:05 am

lpickup wrote:
evnow wrote:There are simply no buttons to easily select an album among the thousands available. It is either touch screen or voice. Choose your poison.


This statement gets to the crux of the issue.

Selecting albums & songs from a library of thousands is what I would call "new functionality". It is a complex operation and provides a level of functionality that frankly would require too many specialized buttons, displays that would not be intuitive.

I can think of one other function that may be approaching vestigial status: the radio tuner dial. While an actual "dial" is certainly intuitive and simple enough that it can be implemented as a dial, it doesn't represent how we use the infotainment systems in our car these days. So you could make an argument for ditching that particular control (I know there are some hard core FM radio junkies that will disagree here).

But certain functions (adjusting temp up & down for example) are so simple that the most intuitive interface is a dial or a slider....and a real one, not a virtual one on a screen that you have to hunt & peck for or get into that "mode" on the screen and hit a relatively small target, or maybe remove your gloves to use.

And sure, maybe voice commands could work, but let's take the example of adjusting the volume of the music. Am I going to have to call out a specific number between 1 and 100? If I say "volume up" is it going to jump up by 1? 10? How do I do fine vs. coarse control? Do I need to hit a button to get into voice control mode in the first place, and does it mute the audio during voice commands so it can understand me? How do I do fine vs. coarse control? When I'm adjusting the volume in the car, the ability to fine tune it with touch without taking my eyes off the road is extremely important.

Now I realize that clearly audio volume is a prime candidate for steering wheel control for this purpose, but it illustrates the point I'm trying to make which is that sometimes complicated GUIs or voice commands are the answer, but for some basic functions, a good old fashioned dedicated knob or slider is really the best solution. And then I don't have to worry about whether the command is "anti-fog" as you called it or "defrost" as I call it! ;)


I like the TS interface better for any music functions. The climate controls are vastly superior to my 2016 Toyota, I set the temp and I'm done. I have never used a defrost button heat button, etc. The Tesla climate does this all well on auto, it has auto defrost! You can ask for any song or artist via voice or use preset icons. I think the vast majority of consumers will prefer the Tesla UI after use. On my recent 1000 mile trip I used the volume on my steering and the temp twice. A few selections of music on the large icons or by voice. I think that the only people that will be be beating the TS dead horse will be small group of people. The entire climate control UI discussion is strange, this is the one thing I interface the least with and it's the most automated.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:09 am

EVDRIVER wrote: The entire climate control UI discussion is strange, this is the one thing I interface the least with and it's the most automated.

Yup

My only exception is that I often use vent only. I'm not worried about the interface.
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:54 am

lpickup wrote:
DanCar wrote:If voice input where so much better, we'd be talking to our computers instead of typing, mousing and swiping.
We'd be talking to EVERYTHING! We wouldn't have TV remotes. My toaster oven would not have a dial to set the temperature & timer. My washing machine would not have a dial and buttons to select the mode. There would be no light switches in my home. There would not be a doorbell by my front door--visitors would just speak "knock knock" I suppose.

Certain functions are simply better suited to simple interfaces. Voice is a method of communication that is way overkill for many (but not all) functions you would want to access in a car, and like it or not, but over reliance on voice is going to turn at least some (and maybe many) people away.
The voice input technology is getting better. There will be TVs announced at CES 2018 with Alexa always listening and or other assistants. I think it is coming to microwaves and other devices 5 years down the road. As it relates to Model 3, maybe a little ahead of the technology curve. First versions of TVs with voice input probably won't be half as good as later versions that handle voice input.

I can envision a camera looking down in the kitchen and knows that you are trying to pop popcorn. Will automatically set the microwave timer appropriately. For Model 3 would be nice if could listen and watch my children in the back seat and notices if they are too hot or cold and adjust temperature accordingly without anyone asking. If someone known is reaching for the glovebox, it knows to open it rather than going through the touch screen menus.
Last edited by DanCar on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:46 am

lpickup wrote:
DanCar wrote:If voice input where so much better, we'd be talking to our computers instead of typing, mousing and swiping.


We'd be talking to EVERYTHING! We wouldn't have TV remotes. My toaster oven would not have a dial to set the temperature & timer. My washing machine would not have a dial and buttons to select the mode. There would be no light switches in my home. There would not be a doorbell by my front door--visitors would just speak "knock knock" I suppose.

Certain functions are simply better suited to simple interfaces. Voice is a method of communication that is way overkill for many (but not all) functions you would want to access in a car, and like it or not, but over reliance on voice is going to turn at least some (and maybe many) people away.



I guess you have not noticed that voice technology is getting better and lower cost every day and is being adopted in more and more applications. You also may have noticed that everything you mention is now voice enabled however it is not everywhere yet as a result of cost, economies of scale and improvements to the recognition. Adoption will increase quickly as the cost and reliability increases. Electronics that cost thousands before are less than a $1 today. If you live long enough you will see autos will have no screen other than to show media and as a backup, I'll bet you on that one. I'll also bet you talking toasters are on the way sooner than you think. I already can talk to every light in my home.

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