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OrientExpress
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:42 pm

hyperionmark wrote:https://electrek.co/2017/10/11/tesla-model-3-first-used-listed-150000/


a two-headed pig is also listed for sale at $150K
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Nubo
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:33 pm

hyperionmark wrote:I think I have maybe realized the real reason people on here hate Tesla much more than any other forum. You all paid a ton of money for your 84 mile range vehicle, which is probably now about 60 miles. Now, for not much more money you can purchase a 210 mile vehicle with a good charging infrastructure. It's sour grapes, pure and simple.

That, or the other obvious reason....you are a little jealous of the people that can afford Teslas. It's easy and popular to put down things that only rich folk can afford.


Your second proposition contradicts your first. As for sour grapes, I've been driving LEAF for 6 years and plan to purchase a 2018. I'll be enjoying my grapes while most Model3 reservation holders are still a year or more from tasting theirs.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

hyperionmark
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:46 pm

FWIW I think a Leaf is a great car for most Californians. With your good charging infrastructure there it makes the paltry battery more effective. We own a Leaf and there are states in the midwest it is near impossible to get across.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:48 pm

For those whose needs are met by the LEAF, I agree that it would be silly from a personal finance standpoint to buy a Tesla.

On the other hand, there are those of us who've chosen to live in less urban areas who need more range and possibly more space than the LEAF offers. I'll admit that rural and exurban lifestyles are generally more energy intensive. Short of moving into the city, the best we can reasonably do to be good stewards of the environment (and our health) is eat little or no red meat, drive EVs, install solar panels, improve home efficiency, recycle and conserve whenever feasible, walk and ride bicycles, etc. Today, only Tesla makes EVs that truly support our lifestyle.

In our case, I'd say that Tesla has created demand for a relatively expensive car, simply by producing an unprecedented product. Otherwise, we'd still be sticking with the likes of Toyota, Nissan, and GM. (That said, I'm glad we are still able to get use out of our 2011 LEAF.)

Apple did the same thing with smart phones. I never thought I'd ever spend over $700 just for a "phone", but it's easy to do nowadays, and nice phones can offer a lot of value for those who appreciate and use their features. (In the interest of frugality, though, I'm not one to upgrade phones frequently.)
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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dgpcolorado
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:12 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:... I bought a LEAF back in 2011 because I wanted to support EVs and to drive on "sunpower." It was very expensive for the miles I drove it, given the massive depreciation, but it was fun.

Shouldn't have sold it when you dd, if you were concerned about cost per mile.

In fact, My 2011 has been less expensive to own than any comparable ICEV would have been over ~6.5 years, though an exact TOU calculation can only be done at resale.

="dgpcolorado"
The used Tesla has had less depreciation and more miles, so it figures to be cheaper per mile overall.

Sorry, but I think you are delusional, even with the (unusual) state subsidy you received (right?) when you bought your S used.

Ask TSLA what it will give you as a trade in, or check actual selling prices, to see the continuing rapid depreciation of your Tesla.

New Ss and Xs cost most owners over a dollar or a mile in TCO, used ones and model 3s should be expected to do somewhat better.

A Leaf, new or used, should cost most owners 25% to 50% as much as any Tesla over similar miles driven, or time owned.
You are mistaken.

You haven't the faintest idea of how hard I had to work to get the LEAF to meet just my local driving needs; it was fun but it gets old too. It sure was nice to get rid of my ICEV and go to one car; the used Tesla allowed me to do that and I've put 33k miles on it in nineteen months, including three 2500+ mile road trips this year to deal with eldercare issues.

I have considerably more experience with used Teslas than you do, to put it mildly. Your incessant trolling gets old. I'll let it go at that.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:11 pm

I have a question Mr dgpcolorado if it isn't being too nosey: had EVs not existed would you have spent what you did on your Tesla on an ICE car? What sort of car would you have otherwise bought?
LTL
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:16 am

Yep, probably spent too much on cars, women, children, houses... well heck! But, I will probably will die with money I haven't used. I should have lived in a cave and scrounged for food instead. :roll:

I paid too much for my Leafs and my Tesla. After all, a lot of us could ride bicycle and/or take public transportation etc.

I am seriously considering a purchase of a used Model 3 in a few years but maybe there will be a (new) best in town by then. Who knows, Nissan may be able to be back in the game by then?

I would think that some might listen to those who have (or have had) more than 1 make of electric vehicle. Sure we can all bash something that we have no actual experience with, anything can be picked apart or speculated about but where is the credibility? Granted, some will persist and do it over and over hoping it will finally sound legit, but smart people usually will see through this.

I am sure that many Leaf owners, who come to this thread, are anticipating adding a Tesla to their collection. And then there are a few of those, obviously, that are fanboys of Nissan only.

Are we only allowed to like one brand? How about we embrace the electric revolution and give them the chance to help save the air quality too!

Being that I have a couple of brands, which brand do you think I prefer to drive?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:00 am

hyperionmark wrote:I think I have maybe realized the real reason people on here hate Tesla much more than any other forum. You all paid a ton of money for your 84 mile range vehicle, which is probably now about 60 miles.

Nope. I don't hate Tesla but I am a realist. I leased my first Leaf, a '13 SV w/both packages for 2 years. It was $314/mo (including taxes and fees) * 23 payments and $0 down. There was the $395 disposition fee at the end after turn in. So, total outlay for lease, not including (very minimal) maintenance, insurance, and 2nd year's registration was ~$7617.

I bought a used ~25 month old 5/2013 built '13 SV w/premium for $9,325 + tax and license in July 2015 to replace the above. I've posted about this numerous times. It is still my daily driver w/over 48.8K miles now and still has all 12 capacity bars, but it's getting real close to losing 1 per Leaf Spy stats. My ICEV mostly sits.
hyperionmark wrote:Now, for not much more money you can purchase a 210 mile vehicle with a good charging infrastructure. It's sour grapes, pure and simple.

There was no 200+ mile EPA range BEV in the US at a Leaf-like price range until the Chevy Bolt in Dec 2016. Even now, good luck getting a Model 3 as a non-Tesla/SpaceX employee at all, let alone for a Leaf-like price.
hyperionmark wrote:That, or the other obvious reason....you are a little jealous of the people that can afford Teslas. It's easy and popular to put down things that only rich folk can afford.

Nope, not jealous. I can easily afford to buy a new Model S w/cash. No loan or lease required. No thanks.

I have also at this point down no deposit on a Model 3. And yes, I know even if I do so today, I'll be waiting a long time. I've posted why at viewtopic.php?p=494244#p494244. I'm not a Tesla fanboy nor a hater. I haven't drank the Kool-Aid and definitely don't have the opinion that they can do no wrong, unlike some folks here. I have in no way ruled out a Tesla as a future vehicle for myself. Some folks can't help but explain away everything about Tesla...

I'd rather buy or lease Bolt (even though I'm not fan of GM w/3 of 3 not very good experiences w/their products in my family in the past) once it hits its 2nd model year than prematurely get a Model 3.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:48 am

hyperionmark wrote:I think I have maybe realized the real reason people on here hate Tesla much more than any other forum. You all paid a ton of money for your 84 mile range vehicle, which is probably now about 60 miles. Now, for not much more money you can purchase a 210 mile vehicle with a good charging infrastructure. It's sour grapes, pure and simple.

That, or the other obvious reason....you are a little jealous of the people that can afford Teslas. It's easy and popular to put down things that only rich folk can afford.


Seems like this forum and the leaf forums have a handful of opposing fanboys (and girls) that do some trolling. Most are just throwing out legitimate criticism. I'm on here because I've become obsessed with EVs since I purchased my Leaf. My wife is going to purchase a longer range EV in a couple of years (when more are available) and I want to keep up with what's happening with the Model 3. Tesla is great. Even if the Model 3 fails miserably it forced other car companies to react. That, on its own, is a major success for the world. I hope it doesn't fail, however, as I own stock in the company.

One point of legitimate angst is that Nissan is not given enough credit for being the first large auto manufacturer to put some skin in the game. Yes, the car has its warts, but what do you expect from a first of it's kind vehicle.

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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:09 am

hyperionmark wrote:https://electrek.co/2017/10/11/tesla-model-3-first-used-listed-150000/


Well there's one Tesla employee that felt like risking his or her job then! I suppose if you were ready to quit anyway, you might as well take $100K profit from it!
...Lance

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