Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:20 pm

OMG the new regenerative braking is butter smooth! It's like chill-mode, but with full access to standard acceleration. It's the little things that keep improving that I like about the company.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:48 pm

GRA wrote:Now that the LR is only available with AWD, I wonder if you will ever be able to order one without the supposedly optional $5k premium package. As it is, the current base price for an LR is $55k. Also, now that they've come out with the MR, although it's by no means guaranteed it looks increasingly possible that we might see a repeat of the S with Tesla claiming that there were few people who wanted the SR, so going forward they'll only sell the MR/LR. That was more plausible with the S than with the 3. I don't know that they can pull that one off twice, when the SR was more or less claimed to be the mass-market-priced version, or a reasonably close facsimile. I imagine it depends almost entirely on whether Tesla can sell the SR at a profit, as well as the company being profitable.


I've been meaning to follow-up on this. Now that Tesla has demonstrated that the company can be profitable, is it really so strange to believe that they'll sell the SR at all?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

cwerdna
Posts: 8405
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:40 pm

Tesla Model 3 Mid Range Deliveries Pushed Up To Get Full Tax Credit
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-mid ... ax-credit/

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 9518
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:38 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:Now that the LR is only available with AWD, I wonder if you will ever be able to order one without the supposedly optional $5k premium package. As it is, the current base price for an LR is $55k. Also, now that they've come out with the MR, although it's by no means guaranteed it looks increasingly possible that we might see a repeat of the S with Tesla claiming that there were few people who wanted the SR, so going forward they'll only sell the MR/LR. That was more plausible with the S than with the 3. I don't know that they can pull that one off twice, when the SR was more or less claimed to be the mass-market-priced version, or a reasonably close facsimile. I imagine it depends almost entirely on whether Tesla can sell the SR at a profit, as well as the company being profitable.


I've been meaning to follow-up on this. Now that Tesla has demonstrated that the company can be profitable, is it really so strange to believe that they'll sell the SR at all?

They've yet to demonstrate that they can be consistently profitable, or that the Model 3SR can be sold at a profit, nor do we know what will happen to sales of their less expensive models once the credits start to reduce. In addition, even if sales don't fall off when the tax credits end, as yet it seems highly unlikely they're in a condition to sell a loss leader in volume and still make a profit, so the answer remains 'we'll see'.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

scottf200
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:45 pm

While this is about the Tesla Model 3 performance it highlights the advantages of electric cars in general and level of controls in the drivetrain.



How Track Mode Works
The Tesla Team 8 November, 2018

Electric powertrains have numerous advantages over internal combustion engines. In addition to low cost of ownership, energy efficiency, and near silence, they also offer unparalleled responsiveness. Since the introduction of Tesla Roadster in 2008, we’ve exploited the immediate availability of motor power and torque to achieve unprecedented straight-line performance, making the car’s forward acceleration a pure extension of the driver. With Track Mode, which is designed specifically for use on closed autocross circuits and racetracks, our goal was simple: use that same motor power and torque to make cornering on the track feel just as natural as forward acceleration.

The fundamentals

How does motor power help you corner? If you’ve ever pulled a car’s handbrake in an icy parking lot, you know that you can make a car turn with more than just the steering wheel. That’s because torque – whether accelerating or decelerating a vehicle – reduces a tire’s ability to hold the car in a turn. Apply torque to the rear wheels, and the car will rotate more in the turn (if you see a car drifting, that’s drive torque; or think about pulling that handbrake, that’s brake torque). Conversely, if you apply either kind of torque to the front wheels, this reduces a car’s ability to turn.

By precisely controlling whether torque goes to the front or the rear wheels, Model 3’s dual motors can immediately and silently increase or decrease the car’s rotation in a corner at your request. This requires lightning fast torque control and the ability for the car to precisely regulate traction on each tire – both of which are standard features in every Tesla, but that we’ve expanded upon with Track Mode to make highly technical driving effortless.

More than just stability

The most exciting aspect of Track Mode is how we can change the balance of the car using just the motors – a technique that would typically be interrupted by a system known as stability control.
Stability control is an important safety feature found in all modern passenger vehicles that applies brakes to certain tires in order to prevent your car from spinning out of control during dynamic maneuvers. The feature is designed to make a car’s behavior more predictable in emergency situations, but it also constrains a driver to a limited range of capabilities at the expense of driver authority and fast lap times. As a result, many cars have “sport” modes that reduce or even disable these safety systems in order to allow a professional driver to maximize the capability of what a car can offer.
Instead of taking away features to enhance the experience of professionals, Track Mode adds features to make any track driver, amateur or professional, feel superhuman on a track. This is possible because with Model 3 Performance, we replaced the stability control system with our own in-house Vehicle Dynamics Controller – software developed specifically for Tesla vehicles that acts both as a stability control system and also as a performance enhancement on the track.

More features, not fewer

Here is a summary of many of the features we employ with Track Mode while you’re on the track:

Motor Torque for Rotation
Our Vehicle Dynamics Controller constantly monitors the state of the vehicle and all of the inputs from the driver to determine the driver’s intention and affect the rotation of the car in a matter of milliseconds. Track Mode relies heavily on the front and rear motors to control the car’s rotation, and we have the ability to command a 100% torque bias. When cornering, if rotation is insufficient to the driver’s request, the system commands a rear biased torque. Conversely, when rotation is excessive, we command a front biased torque.

Increased Regenerative Braking
Heavy regenerative braking may not be comfortable for day-to-day driving, but on a track, it has several key advantages. It gives the driver more authority with a single pedal, improves the endurance of the braking system, and sends more energy back into the battery, maximizing the battery’s ability to deliver large amounts of power. It also gives the Vehicle Dynamics Controller more authority to create or arrest rotation with the motors when your foot is lifted off of the accelerator pedal.

Track Focused Powertrain Cooling
The high output power required for track driving generates a lot of heat, so endurance on the track requires more aggressive cooling of the powertrain. We proactively drop the temperatures of the battery and the drive units in preparation for the track and continue to cool them down in between drive sessions. We can also allow operation of the powertrain beyond typical thermal limits and increase our refrigerant system capacity by overclocking the AC compressor into higher speed ranges.

Enhanced Cornering Power
We typically think of using brakes to slow down a car, but you can actually use them to make the car faster out of a corner. All Model 3s are equipped with open differentials, which send an equal amount of torque from the motors to both the left and right wheels. When cornering, the wheels on the inside of the corner have less load on them, which means they can provide less tractive force than the outside wheels. To prevent excess slip on this inside tire, we have to limit the torque for both wheels, leaving power on the table. In Track Mode, we simultaneously apply brake and motor torque to produce a net increase in tractive force while cornering. This is similar to how a limited slip differential works, except when using the brakes, the differential can be optimized for various driving conditions.

Model 3 Performance with Track Mode integrates active controls with the vehicle’s already planted chassis and nimble, responsive steering by maximizing the driver’s authority under any condition. We do this with the same secret weapon used for 0-60 mph launches: the two motors that sit on each axle. And like most aspects of a Tesla, we’ll continue to improve and enhance Track Mode over time with future over-the-air updates.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/blog/how-tr ... edirect=no
https://electrek.co/2018/11/08/tesla-tr ... mance-how/
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/111 ... m-detailed
Last edited by scottf200 on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used' self | RIP '16 P90DL Sig self |
'18 Tesla Model 3 LR kid1 |
'11 Volt kid2 | '16 Volt for wife | '12 Volt kid1's spouse

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:33 pm

to add to scottf200's post.

From Motor Trend's test of the release version of Track Mode: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/m ... on-review/

1.29 seconds faster than the alpha romeo giulia they lost to last month!
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

scottf200
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:to add to scottf200's post.

From Motor Trend's test of the release version of Track Mode: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/m ... on-review/

1.29 seconds faster than the alpha romeo giulia they lost to last month!
Great find with that article.

That video in the MotorTrend article was GREAT. It talked about/showed standard mode vs track mode.

Image
Image
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used' self | RIP '16 P90DL Sig self |
'18 Tesla Model 3 LR kid1 |
'11 Volt kid2 | '16 Volt for wife | '12 Volt kid1's spouse

GRA
Posts: 9518
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:00 pm

Via IEVS:
Tesla Model 3 RWD Loses Regen With Winter Tires?
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-rwd-loses-regen-with-winter-tires/

Tesla Model 3 owners report that after they switch to winter tires, the regenerative braking power significantly decreased (by at least a half of the normal force). The case seems to concern rear-wheel-drive versions only.

We would expect regenerative braking to adjust the situation and decrease if the traction cannot handle snow or ice, but a decrease of regen right after the change of tires is kind of surprising, especially at temperatures of 6°C (40F) on a dry road and with a heated-up battery (no charging power limit). . . .

According to the video on Tesla Canuck channel, the issue is known to Tesla, so maybe there will be some remedy or at least we will know the reason, depending on whether it’s a bug or a feature. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
dgpcolorado
Posts: 3068
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:52 am

GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
Tesla Model 3 RWD Loses Regen With Winter Tires?
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-rwd-loses-regen-with-winter-tires/

Tesla Model 3 owners report that after they switch to winter tires, the regenerative braking power significantly decreased (by at least a half of the normal force). The case seems to concern rear-wheel-drive versions only.

We would expect regenerative braking to adjust the situation and decrease if the traction cannot handle snow or ice, but a decrease of regen right after the change of tires is kind of surprising, especially at temperatures of 6°C (40F) on a dry road and with a heated-up battery (no charging power limit). . . .

According to the video on Tesla Canuck channel, the issue is known to Tesla, so maybe there will be some remedy or at least we will know the reason, depending on whether it’s a bug or a feature. . . .
That seems odd since the car can't know what tires are on it. I would guess that it is due to reduced regen because of a cold battery, something that I have been expecting to surprise first time EV drivers in cold weather areas. The power/regen meter on the Model 3 is very subtle compared to the one in the Model S and X. It is a line and limited power or regen is indicated by dots instead of the usual line. You would have to know what those dots represent to realize that regen is limited.
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
CPO 2014 Tesla S60 Mar 2016
One car, no ICE, at last!
Tesla Referral Code

GRA
Posts: 9518
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:That seems odd since the car can't know what tires are on it. I would guess that it is due to reduced regen because of a cold battery, something that I have been expecting to surprise first time EV drivers in cold weather areas. The power/regen meter on the Model 3 is very subtle compared to the one in the Model S and X. It is a line and limited power or regen is indicated by dots instead of the usual line. You would have to know what those dots represent to realize that regen is limited.

That seems to have been eliminated as the cause, judging by the thread on TMC: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/who-has-lost-regen-with-winter-tires.133003/

From the first post in that thread:
This is not a battery temperature or state of charge issue. Those possible affects have been eliminated in discovering this.

A number of model 3 owners have found that once they’ve installed winter tires, the regenerative braking has disappeared at higher speeds. It only kicks in at about 30km/h. Prior to that, manually braking is required.

IF this problem has affected you, and you have ruled out a cold battery or too high of a charge, would you post the winter tires you went with and rims. Also, if anyone with a model S or X has this issue, please post too. I’ve only read it affecting the model 3 and have seen it first hand with replika rims and continental SIs. I have read others have it with OEM rims, Xice and the Nokians.

Here is a post form someone that went to Tesla about it:

    Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in “Technical Bulletin” form of why I had practically zero Regen.

    Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims ‘n tires from “All Season” to “Winters”. Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

    After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.

    Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”