GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:05 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
Agreed, however the 3 doesn't have "falcon wing" doors and the door handles aren't of the pop out/retract via motor kind that were on the S. You push on the larger end and pull on the handle.

Yes I know, I was referring to the sorts of issues that all Teslas have to one extent of the other - flush-mount handles are the Model 3's winter problem - all it takes is rain or snow and freezing temps. It seems someone has finally convinced Elon to skip the FWD for the Model Y (and there was much rejoicing! See https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/poll-will-you-buy-model-y-if-it-has-falcon-wing-door.105731/), or at least I read that was the case at GCR or some other site recently. If I had seen this poll, I would have been in the "Hell No!" category.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

sparky
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:07 pm

I voted, "Don't care" and that was the mode at the time. Doesn't seem to be a very emotional issue with TMC voters. I'm a fan of the FWD on my X. No issues. I think they sell more X's because of them. I don't find the door handles on the 3 to be a great design but it's still a minor issue for a car with so many superlatives.

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:50 pm

sparky wrote:I voted, "Don't care" and that was the mode at the time. Doesn't seem to be a very emotional issue with TMC voters. I'm a fan of the FWD on my X. No issues. I think they sell more X's because of them. I don't find the door handles on the 3 to be a great design but it's still a minor issue for a car with so many superlatives.

Do you plan to keep your car beyond the warranty period? Do you regularly use it in inclement conditions? Do you need to carry loads on the roof? Is keeping the car's purchase and M&R costs as low as possible an issue for you? Anyone who answered yes to one or more of these would probably be a no. Answering yes to all four, as I do, would most likely cause someone to check the Hell, No! box. Looking at the responses, almost half (48.4%) voted for one of the no options, so the FWDs are an issue for many.

Granted, as with all such voluntary polls they are unscientific, and the people who feel most strongly about the matter are most likely to vote. My personal take is that FWD are essentially a carnival sideshow gimmick, good for attracting crowds to ooh and aah but not much use otherwise. It seems I'm not the only one who feels that's their major function, and I guess you fall into that category to a certain extent:
Tesla's Silly Falcon Wing Doors Have One Great Function

The motorized, sensor-operated rear doors on the Tesla Model X are needlessly complicated and cause more problems than they solve. But in one specific way, they’re crucial to the future of the automobile.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a21722920/tesla-model-x-falcon-wing-doors/

It's the doors that do it. I was pretty unimpressed by these Falcon Wing doors when the Tesla Model X debuted in 2015, writing them off as an expensive, complicated gimmick. The fact that the doors were a contributing factor in the Model X's delayed arrival didn't do them any favors in my eyes, either.

But when I was taking photos of this Model X P100D in a hip part of Brooklyn, every time I raised the doors, people stopped. A delivery truck driver said the X was "a sexy piece of ass you've got there," while attendees of a nearby music festival stopped and took selfies. Toddlers and parents alike looked on in amazement at the bizarre mechanical symphony of the doors going up and down.

I wasn't expecting this. The Model X has been with us for nearly three years now; in a place like New York City, they're not uncommon. And I struggle to call it pretty. It features lots of nice details, but to be perfectly honest, I think it looks like an egg from many angles.

All I see is a frumpy family transporter. And yet, with the falcon doors, the Model X gets attention like a supercar. And that could be Tesla’s greatest achievement yet. .

When you work as a journalist, it’s easy to have a somewhat jaded view of Elon Musk’s electric car company. We watch Tesla closely, as it burns through cash and continues to struggle to build the entry-level Model 3 on schedule, while Musk wages war on anyone publishing less-than-glowing Tesla coverage and works on unrelated projects you might consider distracting.

But driving the Model X reminds us that much of the public doesn't feel the same way. For them, seeing this striking black, bewinged SUV is an event. I can't help but think of the shot of New Yorkers crowding around a red Countach parked on a Manhattan street from a 1987 60 Minutes profile of Lamborghini. . . .

The first time I saw a Model X at the Yosemite Village charger in Yosemite Valley, it attracted just such a crowd as described above when the owner, who I was talking to at the time, opened them. I suggested he should consider selling tickets :lol:

IMO impractical, expensive, gimmicky doors belong on Supercars, not utility vehicles. No one expects a Supercar to be practical, so such silliness done primarily to attract attention fits right in with the 300SL's Gull-wings or the Scissors doors on a Lamborghini or the Butterfly doors on a Mclaren. If Elon wants to put FWDs on a car, the 2nd Gen. Roadster is the obvious choice - no one who buys one of those will give a hoot in hell for how much they cost, how practical or how reliable they are.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:51 pm

GRA wrote:
sparky wrote:I voted, "Don't care" and that was the mode at the time. Doesn't seem to be a very emotional issue with TMC voters. I'm a fan of the FWD on my X. No issues. I think they sell more X's because of them. I don't find the door handles on the 3 to be a great design but it's still a minor issue for a car with so many superlatives.

Do you plan to keep your car beyond the warranty period? Do you regularly use it in inclement conditions? Do you need to carry loads on the roof? Is keeping the car's purchase and M&R costs as low as possible an issue for you? Anyone who answered yes to one or more of these would probably be a no. Answering yes to all four, as I do, would most likely cause someone to check the Hell, No! box. Looking at the responses, almost half (48.4%) voted for one of the no options, so the FWDs are an issue for many.

Granted, as with all such voluntary polls they are unscientific, and the people who feel most strongly about the matter are most likely to vote. My personal take is that FWD are essentially a carnival sideshow gimmick, good for attracting crowds to ooh and aah but not much use otherwise. It seems I'm not the only one who feels that's their major function, and I guess you fall into that category to a certain extent:
Tesla's Silly Falcon Wing Doors Have One Great Function

The motorized, sensor-operated rear doors on the Tesla Model X are needlessly complicated and cause more problems than they solve. But in one specific way, they’re crucial to the future of the automobile.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a21722920/tesla-model-x-falcon-wing-doors/

It's the doors that do it. I was pretty unimpressed by these Falcon Wing doors when the Tesla Model X debuted in 2015, writing them off as an expensive, complicated gimmick. The fact that the doors were a contributing factor in the Model X's delayed arrival didn't do them any favors in my eyes, either.

But when I was taking photos of this Model X P100D in a hip part of Brooklyn, every time I raised the doors, people stopped. A delivery truck driver said the X was "a sexy piece of ass you've got there," while attendees of a nearby music festival stopped and took selfies. Toddlers and parents alike looked on in amazement at the bizarre mechanical symphony of the doors going up and down.

I wasn't expecting this. The Model X has been with us for nearly three years now; in a place like New York City, they're not uncommon. And I struggle to call it pretty. It features lots of nice details, but to be perfectly honest, I think it looks like an egg from many angles.

All I see is a frumpy family transporter. And yet, with the falcon doors, the Model X gets attention like a supercar. And that could be Tesla’s greatest achievement yet. .

When you work as a journalist, it’s easy to have a somewhat jaded view of Elon Musk’s electric car company. We watch Tesla closely, as it burns through cash and continues to struggle to build the entry-level Model 3 on schedule, while Musk wages war on anyone publishing less-than-glowing Tesla coverage and works on unrelated projects you might consider distracting.

But driving the Model X reminds us that much of the public doesn't feel the same way. For them, seeing this striking black, bewinged SUV is an event. I can't help but think of the shot of New Yorkers crowding around a red Countach parked on a Manhattan street from a 1987 60 Minutes profile of Lamborghini. . . .

The first time I saw a Model X at the Yosemite Village charger in Yosemite Valley, it attracted just such a crowd as described above when the owner, who I was talking to at the time, opened them. I suggested he should consider selling tickets :lol:

IMO impractical, expensive, gimmicky doors belong on Supercars, not utility vehicles. No one expects a Supercar to be practical, so such silliness done primarily to attract attention fits right in with the 300SL's Gull-wings or the Scissors doors on a Lamborghini or the Butterfly doors on a Mclaren. If Elon wants to put FWDs on a car, the 2nd Gen. Roadster is the obvious choice - no one who buys one of those will give a hoot in hell for how much they cost, how practical or how reliable they are.


As a former owner of a Honda Odyssey with motorized sliding doors, I'd have to disagree with you. Convenience features are exactly that - convenient. I hated them initially, because they were slower than manual doors. But the first time it sensed a problem and auto-retracted, I appreciated their sensor-laden functionality. After I got into a car accident and the doors were repaired, they became more glitchy, but I still put up with them, because they allowed me to let my kids and grandparents in and out without them having the strength to open/close the doors themselves.

Falcon wing doors are flashy, much like how motorized sliding doors were initially, but they are also convenient. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean that everyone else bought them for the pizazz.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

sparky
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:12 pm

GRA wrote:Do you plan to keep your car beyond the warranty period? Do you regularly use it in inclement conditions? Do you need to carry loads on the roof? Is keeping the car's purchase and M&R costs as low as possible an issue for you? Anyone who answered yes to one or more of these would probably be a no. Answering yes to all four, as I do, would most likely cause someone to check the Hell, No! box. Looking at the responses, almost half (48.4%) voted for one of the no options, so the FWDs are an issue for many.
I don't think that list is very relevant to an $80k SUV. I would answer "no" to most of that list if I was buying any high-end SUV. I don't think I'm unusual. It's the nature of the beast. FWDs are just one more feature of the X that I enjoy; like the pano-windscreen, great stereo, HEPA filtration (bio-defense mode) and nice storage below the seats. I'm more concerned with the longevity of the 90kWh pack than FWDs. Nonetheless, I'm impressed with how many X's Tesla produces. I will still consider buying/leasing another X when the Y emerges. I'm so smitten with the Model 3 though that I may prefer that platform and go with the Y no matter what I find the Y is "lacking" based on my time with the X.
Last edited by sparky on Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SageBrush
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:21 pm

'Yes' to 3/4, and I am delighted with my Model 3. Best purchase I have made in a long time.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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IssacZachary
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:54 pm

SageBrush wrote:'Yes' to 3/4, and I am delighted with my Model 3. Best purchase I have made in a long time.

I'm glad for you, and a bit jealous. Congratulations!
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GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:21 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:As a former owner of a Honda Odyssey with motorized sliding doors, I'd have to disagree with you. Convenience features are exactly that - convenient. I hated them initially, because they were slower than manual doors. But the first time it sensed a problem and auto-retracted, I appreciated their sensor-laden functionality. After I got into a car accident and the doors were repaired, they became more glitchy, but I still put up with them, because they allowed me to let my kids and grandparents in and out without them having the strength to open/close the doors themselves.

Falcon wing doors are flashy, much like how motorized sliding doors were initially, but they are also convenient. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean that everyone else bought them for the pizazz.

I've never said that everyone bought them for the pizazz, but it's unquestionably a factor. I'm not a fan of powered sliding doors either, but I can see where they'd be of use in some situations. But let's face it, the Model X has FWD rather than sliding doors (which don't prohibit roof loads, and having fewer parts and hinges and only moving in one plane should be less unreliable than FWD) primarily because Elon didn't want anyone comparing the Model X to a minivan, not because they provided the best utility. :roll: You mention speed, and that's one of my issues with powered doors - when the wind is blowing rain/sleet/snow sideways, I don't want to have to wait 7 seconds for FWD to close (not to mention the time they take to open). I can open, hop in and close a manual door in about 2 seconds. Then there's the fact that developing the FWD delayed the Model X for over a year and cost a bundle. Prior to the vehicle's intro, no one other than Elon had even considered that such a thing was necessary on a CUV, and no one would have said "You know, if Tesla doesn't put some unique, heavy, expensive, slow, unreliable powered rear doors on the Model X, I simply won't buy one".
Last edited by GRA on Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:28 pm

sparky wrote:I don't think that list is very relevant to an $80k SUV. I would answer "no" to most of that list if I was buying any high-end SUV. I don't think I'm unusual. It's the nature of the beast. FWDs are just one more feature of the X that I enjoy; like the pano-windscreen, great stereo, HEPA filtration (bio-defense mode) and nice storage below the seats. I'm more concerned with the longevity of the 90kWh pack than FWDs. Nonetheless, I'm impressed with how many X's Tesla produces. I will still consider buying/leasing another X when the Y emerges. I'm so smitten with the Model 3 though that I may prefer that platform and go with the Y no matter what I find the Y is "lacking" based on my time with the X.

The filter came in useful over the past three weeks or so in California. OTOH, I definitely don't want a pano roof in a car, as I spend way too much time driving in desert areas. The stereo is (sadly) of no value to me these days given my hearing loss. For the rest, see my reply to O4AO. I've been waiting on the Model Y for years now, but if it includes some of the features of the Model 3 that I vehemently dislike, I'll pass. In any case, odds are even the short range version will be well above my budget, and I'd need the longest range one (without all the extra, expensive gimmicks).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:55 pm

IEVS:
Tesla Model 3 1,000-Mile Road Trip: Total Charging Time And Cost
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-1000-mile-trip-charging-time-cost/

. . . Video Description via Andy Slye on YouTube:
1,000 Mile Trip in a Tesla Model 3: The TRUTH About Charging

Tesla Model 3 road trip test: How it handles 1,000 miles! This is a test to see how my RWD Long Range Model 3 does on a long road trip. Turns out it’s an awesome car for traveling!

4 total Supercharging stops:

Brentwood TN (36 mins) +177 miles for $3.70
Athens AL (28 mins) +127 miles for $3.90
Athens AL (20 mins) +70 miles for $2.20
Bowling Green KY (14 mins) +115 miles for $3.08

Total Supercharging Time: 1 hr 38 mins (25 mins average per stop)
Total Supercharging Cost for 990 mile trip: $12.88
Avg 249 Wh/mile

Round trip including L1 charging at his sister's and hotel charging on a Tesla DC. so initial charge plus two SCs each way plus destination charging, not 990 miles non-stop.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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