Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 9:23 am

lorenfb wrote:
webb14leafs wrote: They currently have a product (M3) with very respectable sales, even though the style and price point don't match the overall market.


So Tesla does have a problem, which is affecting demand, right? Can you explain this, "very respectable sales", with some detail,
given that now the demand for all Tesla vehicles has declined in the first four months of 2019 versus Q4 of 2018? Remember,
both Nokia & Blackberry had "very respectable sales" and GPs, notwithstanding Apple. Tesla is nowhere near achieving critical
mass in the automotive marketplace, i.e. to compete with the likes of GM, Toyota, VW, etc.!

webb14leafs wrote: The margins are solid, and if you only consider the current models they are near sustained profitability.


You like many ignore the fact that without an adequate sales volume, stating a product's GP per vehicle is a non-sequitur.


So we're back to the demand short-thesis now? Pretty sure you and your ilk made the same claim back in Feb? As well as Q1 of 2018? Not saying there's infinite demand, because no product has infinite demand. Just pointing out the obvious, because you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
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lorenfb
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 1:11 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Soon to be ex forum troller if things do not change soon.


Dislike facts or reality, so it's trolling, right? The last I checked, this is a Nissan Leaf forum, what's with all the Tesla promos?
When's the last time you commented on a Leaf issue other than denigrate the Leaf in favor of a Tesla? It appears many
here besides you just promote Telsa topics. What's that all about?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 1:19 pm

lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Soon to be ex forum troller if things do not change soon.


Dislike facts or reality, so it's trolling, right? The last I checked, this is a Nissan Leaf forum, what's with all the Tesla promos?
When's the last time you commented on a Leaf issue other than denigrate the Leaf in favor of a Tesla? It appears many
here besides you just promote Telsa topics. What's that all about?


Because this is the Tesla Model 3 thread? Kinda like how it would be frowned upon to talk about the Leaf in the Toyota Mirai thread?

But you already knew that and just want to stir trouble ... which is what trolling is isn't it?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

lorenfb
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 1:20 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:So we're back to the demand short-thesis now? Pretty sure you and your ilk made the same claim back in Feb? As well as Q1 of 2018? Not saying there's infinite demand, because no product has infinite demand. Just pointing out the obvious, because you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.


OK, then we wait for June results, and then further assess the demand issue. Remember, Elon's latest is 250-300K for 2019.
Given the average GP of the M3 and Q1 losses, one can easily determine the necessary breakeven Tesla sales volume needed.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 1:25 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Because this is the Tesla Model 3 thread? Kinda like how it would be frowned upon to talk about the Leaf in the Toyota Mirai thread?

But you already knew that and just want to stir trouble ... which is what trolling is isn't it?


Sorry you missed the point! Few if any Tesla promoters/posters comment/contribute to Leaf discussions. Tesla still has a number
of forums to discuss Tesla issues, right? So only positive Tesla issues on Tesla threads on MNL? Oh, OK.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 1:48 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Because this is the Tesla Model 3 thread? Kinda like how it would be frowned upon to talk about the Leaf in the Toyota Mirai thread?

But you already knew that and just want to stir trouble ... which is what trolling is isn't it?


Sorry you missed the point! Few if any Tesla promoters/posters comment/contribute to Leaf discussions. Tesla still has a number
of forums to discuss Tesla issues, right? So only positive Tesla issues on Tesla threads on MNL? Oh, OK.


Labeling the positive viewpoints of current Tesla owners [ posting on a Tesla thread ] as "Tesla promoters", and using that as justification for your negative posts on Tesla [ which points to a hatred of Tesla ] is pretty flawed reasoning.

If you own a Tesla and had issues with it, then I think people would be more receptive to your negative viewpoints. But right now, all I'm seeing is an agenda and a vested interest completely divorced from the product.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 3:05 pm

lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Soon to be ex forum troller if things do not change soon.


Dislike facts or reality, so it's trolling, right? The last I checked, this is a Nissan Leaf forum, what's with all the Tesla promos?
When's the last time you commented on a Leaf issue other than denigrate the Leaf in favor of a Tesla? It appears many
here besides you just promote Telsa topics. What's that all about?



It is not about your opinion or about a debate on facts it is your posting behavior which is being called out by multiple members, often and over long periods of time. You have been warned by other mods before. This is an official warning, other sites would have banned you a long time ago. Any ban will permanent. You are not on this thread solely to debate facts or opinions and you know this.

DanCar
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 5:11 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:It is not about your opinion or about a debate on facts it is your posting behavior which is being called out by multiple members, often and over long periods of time. You have been warned by other mods before. This is an official warning, other sites would have banned you a long time ago. Any ban will permanent. You are not on this thread solely to debate facts or opinions and you know this.

I enjoy LorenFB's posts and I fail to see personal attacks which people should get banned for, although I could easily have missed something. I have seen personal attacks by others without a warning. For example I dislike how OrientExpress gets attacked and they have very informative posts also.
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https://twitter.com/DanielCardena

lorenfb
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 6:39 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:If you own a Tesla and had issues with it, then I think people would be more receptive to your negative viewpoints. But right now, all I'm seeing is an agenda and a vested interest completely divorced from the product.


The M3 is a well designed BEV with leading technology in numerous areas. I never minimized that aspect. Other than to indicate for
the most part, that Tesla's technology is widely known and available to other OEMs. Personally I find the 40 kWh Leaf more appealing
for my needs, and without the negatives of the M3 I've expressed on MNL.

My key objections are with Tesla's management and marketing of its products. Why the need for the "smoke & mirrors" approach
when presenting and discussing Tesla's near term guidance? Frequent full sales and financial disclosures will most likely result in
less stock volatility in the long run, and less short selling. There's no need for Elon's typical hyperbolic presentations which denote,
as an example, that FSD (full self driving) will be available by late 2020 or sooner;

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/1851 ... redictions

And then making comments such as this;
It’s financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla.

Or this;
Tesla unveiled a new microchip that Musk said was being included in every new Tesla produced today.
He called “the best chip in the world… objectively.”

There're more than enough very good word-of-mouth data on Tesla products, without the need for such comments.

The financial data I've used in presenting my perspective on Tesla are publicly available from Tesla's P&L statements. The calculations
used are very simple Accounting 101 theory that most can derive from what has been posted. It's unfortunate that some disapprove
of viewing Tesla's financial and market position analytically. One always has the option to ignore my posts or to refute the
calculations using the same publicly available financial data.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

cwerdna
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon May 06, 2019 11:00 pm

DanCar wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:It is not about your opinion or about a debate on facts it is your posting behavior which is being called out by multiple members, often and over long periods of time. You have been warned by other mods before. This is an official warning, other sites would have banned you a long time ago. Any ban will permanent. You are not on this thread solely to debate facts or opinions and you know this.

I enjoy LorenFB's posts and I fail to see personal attacks which people should get banned for, although I could easily have missed something. I have seen personal attacks by others without a warning.

I agree w/DanCar here. Who's doing this "calling out"? I suspect it's a tiny vocal (?) minority of Tesla fans, fanboys and those long TSLA stock.

https://www.gamesradar.com/psychology-f ... fessional/ explains the behavior I've sometimes seen here and frequently at TMC quite well. It is part of why I've had to disengage from TMC from time to time, sometimes for months.

Although Loren and Ed (who seems banned and where I personally ignored most of his posts on certain (non-TSLA) topics) might be a bit over the top w/negativity about Tesla and Elon, I can't recall anything he's done that makes it ban-worthy on a NISSAN LEAF site. There are a few (previously a few more) folks who frankly are rather abrasive here on MNL and should tone things down but yet at least one of them is still here.

The "complainers" should just add lorenfb to their foes list and chill. Take a step back. There's very little that lorenfb could post here that could move TSLA stock in a significant way for any significant period of time. The world will go on. TSLA's status is unlikely to change due to his posts here.
lorenfb wrote:My key objections are with Tesla's management and marketing of its products. Why the need for the "smoke & mirrors" approach
when presenting and discussing Tesla's near term guidance? Frequent full sales and financial disclosures will most likely result in
less stock volatility in the long run, and less short selling. There's no need for Elon's typical hyperbolic presentations which denote,
as an example, that FSD (full self driving) will be available by late 2020 or sooner;

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/1851 ... redictions

And then making comments such as this;
It’s financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla.

Or this;
Tesla unveiled a new microchip that Musk said was being included in every new Tesla produced today.
He called “the best chip in the world… objectively.”

There're more than enough very good word-of-mouth data on Tesla products, without the need for such comments.

Indeed. The hyperbole is insane and keeps happening over and over.

I pointed out even more at viewtopic.php?p=556276#p556276 from https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/02/elon-mu ... mpany.html.
Musk confidently told investors on the call that autonomous driving will transform Tesla into a company with a $500 billion market cap, these people said. Its current market cap stands around $42 billion. He also said that existing Teslas will increase in value as self-driving capabilities are added via software, and will be worth up to $250,000 within three years.
...
Musk reiterated that because Teslas can be upgraded “over-the-air” with new software-enabled features and functionality, they will appreciate in value, unlike nearly every other car on the market. A Tesla will be worth $150,000 to $250,000 in 3 years, he claimed. He also said that a full self-driving upgrade will increase the value of any Tesla by a half order of magnitude, or five times.

:roll:
lorenfb wrote:The financial data I've used in presenting my perspective on Tesla are publicly available from Tesla's P&L statements. The calculations
used are very simple Accounting 101 theory that most can derive from what has been posted. It's unfortunate that some disapprove
of viewing Tesla's financial and market position analytically. One always has the option to ignore my posts or to refute the
calculations using the same publicly available financial data.

+1

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