lorenfb
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:00 pm

Sorry for the "sidebar". Now for more reporting from Boomer23.

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Boomer23
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:10 pm

lorenfb wrote:Sorry for the "sidebar". Now for more reporting from Boomer23.


:D :D :D
2014 BMW i3 with Range Extender
2017 Chevy Bolt EV Premier Kinetic Blue
Blog: http://drivingelectric.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Boomer23 wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Sorry for the "sidebar". Now for more reporting from Boomer23.


:D :D :D

Yes, nice trip. I've always wanted to see one of the 'once every twenty years' desert flower blooms, but have managed to miss them so far. What kind of extra time (including planning) would you say your trip took vs. an ICE?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:47 pm

Via GCR:
Why I canceled my Chevy Bolt EV electric-car order: a reader explains
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... r-explains

Short version, had leased an FFE and now has a 500e, didn't care for the change in looks from the concept to production, didn't like the cheapo interior plastics, lack of high speed AEB (over 37 mph) and other auto driving features, holding off for a Model 3.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

lorenfb
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Why I canceled my Chevy Bolt EV electric-car order: a reader explains


For some, the imperfections of life that one must content with!

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:06 am

Main reason I'm thinking Model 3 over Bolt is the supercharging network. It still feels like with anything other than a Tesla you're dependent on the charity of others to find a place to charge for any longer distance travel. Tesla's stations are appropriately located for road trips along interstates, whereas dealerships and such are located in towns, may only have one stall, may be already in use or closed, whatever.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

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Boomer23
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:36 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Main reason I'm thinking Model 3 over Bolt is the supercharging network. It still feels like with anything other than a Tesla you're dependent on the charity of others to find a place to charge for any longer distance travel. Tesla's stations are appropriately located for road trips along interstates, whereas dealerships and such are located in towns, may only have one stall, may be already in use or closed, whatever.


That's a really valid point, and I share it completely. That's why I'm planning for an eventual setup of a Bolt and a Model 3. The Bolt will be my wife's car for grandkids, local erranding, etc without a care about charging stops interrupting her days in any way. The Tesla will be my personal fun car, with more panache, style, performance and will be our road trip car.
However, since we made the choice to jump into a Bolt and out of an old Prius now, the Bolt is our road trip car until the Model 3 comes along. So we accept that we're subject to the slings and arrows of an unpredictable public DCFC charging network. Or rent or borrow an ICE in the ulikely case of a trip into no-EV's Land.
2014 BMW i3 with Range Extender
2017 Chevy Bolt EV Premier Kinetic Blue
Blog: http://drivingelectric.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Boomer23
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:55 am

GRA wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Sorry for the "sidebar". Now for more reporting from Boomer23.


:D :D :D

Yes, nice trip. I've always wanted to see one of the 'once every twenty years' desert flower blooms, but have managed to miss them so far. What kind of extra time (including planning) would you say your trip took vs. an ICE?


Good question.
Maybe three hours extra planning time, plus two hours of lost sleep. I'm being completely honest and serious here.

Almost all of that was because it was our first long trip in this car, our first DCFC with it, and because of the challenging terrain.

Wife and I had a one hour sit-down-with-paper-maps and PlugShare planning session. She's a math teacher, a born navigator and wanted to ensure a fun day including all points of interest without skipping any because of energy concerns, but also without needless charging stops.

I spent a couple hours driving to and from a local DCFC charger and charging the car to verify that DC charging works, and that EVgo stations work with the car, and the checking the charging speed.

I spent time on PlugShare and Google Maps mapping the distances and guessing at the impact of elevation changes, and selecting likely DCFC charging spots.

And I actually found it hard to sleep the night before. I found myself thinking about the various decision points on the trip where we could opt for a Plan B route that would be more energy efficient, but those options would cut out some destinations that we wanted to hit. So just a swirl of thoughts that kept my mind active and not ready to sleep,
2014 BMW i3 with Range Extender
2017 Chevy Bolt EV Premier Kinetic Blue
Blog: http://drivingelectric.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:45 am

evnow wrote:Volt will be a hard sell to my wife because she doesn't like low cars. Who knows - I might end up with a '17 Leaf.


I checked out Boomers bolt EV last weekend, and it seems like a real nice car. I recently had the need to get a car for a company runabout, and I have no need for a car that goes over 100 miles. The Bolt EV costs substantially more than the 2017 LEAF-S that I just picked up yesterday on lease:

30kWh, CHAdeMO fast charge, 6.6kW, glacier white (to be wrapped with company logo), black cloth interior (only choice with the S model):

$33k sticker price
$14k discounts
$9k residual (27%)
$10k total payment for 3yr/36,000 at $279 per month with California "use" tax
$0 down

The car will be used to take packages to FedEx, pick up lunch, shuttle employees around, etc. If the car needs to go more than 100 miles in a day, it comes with the free "no charge to charge" card, and there are about 300 CHAdeMO stations throughout Southern California. That's not the case with CCS used by the Bolt EV, but I'm confident that in the future virtually all charging stations will have both. I don't believe the Bolt comes with free charging. GM does not support infrastructure.

It comes with XM radio on the latest 3G Telematics. The seats are comfy, which I did not find to be the case with the leather seat in the Bolt EV, but the cloth seat in Boomer's car seemed OK. The LEAF appears to have more headroom front and rear and more storage room in the back (Important for our mission with this car).

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:55 am

I hope this clears up some issues about the fast charge rate of the Bolt EV.

Power is simply amps multiplied by volts:

A * V = W

So, today, the highest observed amps that the Bolt can handle is 125 amps. This could be because of the 125 amp limit of the chargers, or it could be because GM engineers limited the Bolt EV to 125 amps, or both.

The voltage component of the above power equation in the Bolt EV is 300 volts (empty) to 400 volts (full).

So, rolling into a 125 amp charger with a nearly empty battery, you can expect:

125a * 300v = 37.5kW

Could the Bolt EV take 200 amps? I'm very confident that it can. Is it programmed to allow anything above 125 amps? We don't know... yet.

So, to answer your question, should the Bolt EV be able to handle 126-200 amps, the charge rate will likely look like this:

0% SOC : 200a * 300v = 60.0kW
25% SOC: 175a * 330v = 57.7kW
50% SOC : 125a * 355v = 44.5kW
75% SOC : 60a * 380v = 19.0kW

Using the above assumptions, and using the EPA data of 4 miles range per kWh, then the average charge rate using a 200 amp capable charger might be:

52.5kW average charge rate between 0% and 50% which will add 0.875kWh per minute, or 3.5 EPA miles added per minute average.

That's 105 EPA miles added in 30 minutes. Obviously, the higher 126-200 amp charge rate offers no benefit whatsoever above 50% SOC.

One final note on the 80kW charger issue that GM introduced in the owner's manual:

1) there is exactly zero 80kW chargers in the world for EVs

2) there are exactly zero 80kW chargers that are planned to be built

3) there will be (and already are in Europe and S. Korea) 200a * 500v = 100kW chargers, and 250-350 amp chargers are coming.

As of this moment, the maximum charge rate of the Bolt EV is 45kW, with an average charge rate of just 40kW between 0% and 65% SOC. Above 65%, the charge rate will be pathetically slow.

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