webb14leafs
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:16 am

OrientExpress wrote:Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs


This is surprising. There must be an unusual amount of driver/passenger leg room volume (under the dash) in the Bolt because there's no way it has more rear passenger and cargo volume than the Leaf.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:05 am

webb14leafs wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs
This is surprising. There must be an unusual amount of driver/passenger leg room volume (under the dash) in the Bolt because there's no way it has more rear passenger and cargo volume than the Leaf.
You are correct. If you look at the links you quoted, you see the following:

Leaf:
Interior Passenger Volume: 92.4 cu.ft.
Cargo Volume: 23.6 cu.ft.
Total Interior Volume: 116.0 cu.ft.

Bolt:
Interior Passenger Volume: 95.0 cu.ft.
Cargo Volume: 16.9 cu.ft.
Total Interior Volume: 111.9 cu.ft.

As you can see, the LEAF has approximately 40% more cargo volume than the Bolt.
RegGuheert
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evnow
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:11 am

GRA wrote:Goes to show that its a single measure, more useful for calculating passenger space (since passengers vary little in their shape, and tend to need height as much as width and length) than cargo space, which varies considerably depending on what needs to be carried. For suitcases or many boxes volume is a good measure. For long but flat cargo, length, width or area is more important. Just depends on your needs or priorities.

But humans are not cargo. If you make a mould of a large person and ask people to sit in it (great leg, shoulder, hip room) - they'll still feel claustrophobic. Bolt could be something engineered to make numbers look good on paper. The feeling when you sit is entirely different.
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NeilBlanchard
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:48 am

jlv wrote:
NeilBlanchard wrote:The Bolt EV has MORE interior volume than a Tesla Model S.
Do you have figures to back that up? I've sat in a Bolt (there are 4 or 5 here at work now) and I can't imagine anyway that it had more volume that the Model S, passenger or cargo. Certainly the full size futon frame+mattress I put in my Model S last week would not have fit in a Bolt.

The best comparison I find is from MotorTrend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrole ... odel-s-60/
Although the Tesla’s passenger cabin is ever so slightly smaller than the Bolt’s, its front and rear trunks do give it a 9-cubic-foot advantage in cargo capacity.


Yes - the Bolt EV has 94.4 cu ft and the Model S is 94 cu ft. Keep in mind the Model S is 196" long, and the Bolt EV is 164" long - that is 32" difference; over 16% longer.

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dgpcolorado
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:54 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Yes - the Bolt EV has 94.4 cu ft and the Model S is 94 cu ft. Keep in mind the Model S is 196" long, and the Bolt EV is 164" long - that is 32" difference; over 16% longer.
I would guess that a sizeable fraction of that Model S length is in front, given the long front end. Especially compared to the Bolt (or LEAF 1).
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GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:20 pm

evnow wrote:
GRA wrote:Goes to show that its a single measure, more useful for calculating passenger space (since passengers vary little in their shape, and tend to need height as much as width and length) than cargo space, which varies considerably depending on what needs to be carried. For suitcases or many boxes volume is a good measure. For long but flat cargo, length, width or area is more important. Just depends on your needs or priorities.

But humans are not cargo. If you make a mould of a large person and ask people to sit in it (great leg, shoulder, hip room) - they'll still feel claustrophobic. Bolt could be something engineered to make numbers look good on paper. The feeling when you sit is entirely different.

Passengers are a type of cargo, of a particular shape and size but able to complain. As to how comfortable the Bolt is for passengers, that will vary depending on the individual, but most reviews I've read indicate more than adequate room for four adults, or even five for short trips. I think the Bolt's just about ideally proportioned for urban car/ride-sharing, especially once full autonomy arrives (and they straighten out the seat issue). For some practical comparisons of passenger and cargo space:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-in-depth-model-review-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-interior-review-car-and-driver-page-5

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-in-depth-model-review-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-cargo-space-and-storage-review-car-and-driver-page-7
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:01 am

evnow wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs


Goes to show how useless of a number this is.


Exactly. The Bolt is very tall which adds to the interior volume. But it is a "disaster" for aero (the designer's words, not mine) and adds exactly zero useful space for passengers. It simply "feels" larger, without being larger in any meaningful way.
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GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:07 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
evnow wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs


Goes to show how useless of a number this is.

Exactly. The Bolt is very tall which adds to the interior volume. But it is a "disaster" for aero (the designer's words, not mine) and adds exactly zero useful space for passengers. It simply "feels" larger, without being larger in any meaningful way.

The height certainly adds useful headroom compared to say the Volt or Prime, especially in the back seat - see the C&D specs I linked to. The Bolt measures up well to its 2WD "crossover" (actually just tall hatch) competition, the Soul and C-Max. In a Volt you probably don't want to put anyone over about 5'9" back there, depending on their torso to inseam ratio. Going high rather than long is best for urban environments as it makes finding a space and then parallel parking easier, and also makes loading/unloading cargo in angle-parking spaces safer. There are aero drawbacks at freeway speeds (just as there are with any CUV/SUV), but the Bolt's primary purpose isn't as a road trip car.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:38 pm

GRA wrote:The height certainly adds useful headroom compared to say the Volt or Prime, especially in the back seat


Purely subjective. But fine. There are some use cases where it might be useful.

GRA wrote:Going high rather than long is best for urban environments as it makes finding a space and then parallel parking easier, and also makes loading/unloading cargo in angle-parking spaces safer.


Yes, this much is true. I just get caught in my own disappointment because I don't need an urban car because I don't live or often travel in an urban environment. When I do, the C-Max is a good fit for the same reasons you mention. But more often, my use case is suburban, rural, or highway travel.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
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NeilBlanchard
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:01 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
evnow wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Chevy Bolt interior volume is 95 cubic feet. http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/bolt-ev/2017.tab1.html

Nissan LEAF 92.4 https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/ (LEAF 2 is rumored to be 96 Cu/Ft.)

Tesla Model S 94 http://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s/specs


Goes to show how useless of a number this is.


Exactly. The Bolt is very tall which adds to the interior volume. But it is a "disaster" for aero (the designer's words, not mine) and adds exactly zero useful space for passengers. It simply "feels" larger, without being larger in any meaningful way.


What does height have to do with aerodynamics? Frontal area is frontal area - the air doesn't "care" what proportions it is.

Height is very useful to tall people. Sitting up higher yields more legroom. And having enough headroom is not easy. Many cars are simply too short for tall people to fit in.

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