GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1873
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:56 pm

WetEV wrote:There are more, not all hotels have them. Call them, if a hotel has 10 empty rooms and 10 daily calls of "do you have electric car charging"? followed by "no", then the management of the hotel might figure out that five or so L2 stations might reduce the vacancy rate...


This is something I need to get better about. I normally just rely on PlugShare. So technically, I pretty well know whether they have one or not. But without making a phone call, they don't know that they lost my business because of it. Thanks for the reminder.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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evnow
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Posts: 11441
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:04 pm

A local dealer got hold of some Bolts from a CA dealer (he was complaining he had to get a bunch of slow moving vehicles too as part of the deal). All with GM blessing - so yes - they are overstocked in CA.

It felt shockingly small inside compared to Leaf - don't know whether its just a unfamiliarity thing. The seat was ok (but then, I'm thin). Charge was low - so couldn't really go far or quick. but it drives adequately. I knew it would be a econobox - but it was still shocking how barebones - hard plasticky it is. You'd feel practically robbed paying $40k/>$500 a month lease for this.

Currently GM hasn't announced a lease program for WA - and buying the car knowing I want to get rid off this whenever I get Model 3 would be not prudent. Infact if the lease continues to be close to $500 (zero down) I expect to spend about double of what I'd spend on a new Leaf in the next 18 months. I find it difficult to justify the expense.

Strangely, now I'm wondering whether to get a Volt as a stop gap.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

lorenfb
Posts: 1811
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:03 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Bottom Line: A joke of a representative NoCal to Socal and back trip in a 200+ mile BEV.


Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.


Articles like that don't enhance the likelihood that consumers will consider a transition from an ICEV to a BEV
in the near term. Hopefully, those articles are infrequent and/or don't reach the mainstream media!
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

webeleafowners
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:04 pm

evnow wrote:A local dealer got hold of some Bolts from a CA dealer (he was complaining he had to get a bunch of slow moving vehicles too as part of the deal). All with GM blessing - so yes - they are overstocked in CA.

It felt shockingly small inside compared to Leaf - don't know whether its just a unfamiliarity thing. The seat was ok (but then, I'm thin). Charge was low - so couldn't really go far or quick. but it drives adequately. I knew it would be a econobox - but it was still shocking how barebones - hard plasticky it is. You'd feel practically robbed paying $40k/>$500 a month lease for this.

Currently GM hasn't announced a lease program for WA - and buying the car knowing I want to get rid off this whenever I get Model 3 would be not prudent. Infact if the lease continues to be close to $500 (zero down) I expect to spend about double of what I'd spend on a new Leaf in the next 18 months. I find it difficult to justify the expense.

Strangely, now I'm wondering whether to get a Volt as a stop gap.


That's how we felt about the Bolt we tried before we bought the 2016 SV leftover. Tacky, noisy, cramped and definetly unrefined. It also didn't have NaV or quick charge. Our SV is appointed nicer than our neighbours Cadillac other than the power seats he has. If the 2018 comes out with what that article says and it is anywhere near the same price they will trounce the bolt. Here is hoping they offer a 40 KWH smaller battery as the 60 KWH they are talking about is way overkill for us.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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evnow
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:24 pm

webeleafowners wrote: Here is hoping they offer a 40 KWH smaller battery as the 60 KWH they are talking about is way overkill for us.

If history repeats itself - Leaf 2 S will be 30 kWh, with SV/SL being 60 kWh. It is possible we'll get a 45kWh SV and a 60 kWh SL. On the whole expecting Leaf 2 to be cheaper than Bolt (and Model 3) for equal trims. Difficult to see Bolt selling better than Leaf 2 if that is the case.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

webeleafowners
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:00 pm

evnow wrote:
webeleafowners wrote: Here is hoping they offer a 40 KWH smaller battery as the 60 KWH they are talking about is way overkill for us.

If history repeats itself - Leaf 2 S will be 30 kWh, with SV/SL being 60 kWh. It is possible we'll get a 45kWh SV and a 60 kWh SL. On the whole expecting Leaf 2 to be cheaper than Bolt (and Model 3) for equal trims. Difficult to see Bolt selling better than Leaf 2 if that is the case.


Totally agree. I hope you are right on the 45 KW option. You never know. We didn't want leather seats this time but the next car will be prep for retirement. If we decide that is the case we might reconsider the bigger battery. Reality is for us it is a 2020 purchase, maybe 2021 for my 60th birthday. :). Maybe we'll go all out for the SL. Who knows what the other MFG offerings will be by then but we are not interested in any of the crossover EV's and there is no Tesla facility near us for service. We want a 5 passenger sedan, not to big so there is room to move in the garage. Hopefully our smart ED convertible will still be serving us well at that time but reality is once we are retired we are going to be a one car family.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

GRA
Posts: 9099
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:51 pm

lorenfb wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Bottom Line: A joke of a representative NoCal to Socal and back trip in a 200+ mile BEV.

Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.

Articles like that don't enhance the likelihood that consumers will consider a transition from an ICEV to a BEV
in the near term. Hopefully, those articles are infrequent and/or don't reach the mainstream media!

On the contrary, they need to reach the mainstream media so we don't have a large number of quickly disillusioned mainstream consumers bitching about BEVs. GetOffYourGas is exactly right - if GM and the other BEV companies hope to expand beyond the early adopter base that frequents sites like this one, then this is exactly the sort of thing their customers will be dealing with, and it's not as if they're likely to get good info from dealership personnel.

I was somewhat impressed that she picked up on the charging speed difference between the BMW-built and Chargepoint-branded QCs and the eVgos so quickly, given that she obviously isn't a devotee of EV forums. Sure, we could all have told her she should have expected 24 kW from them instead of 50kW, but she's at least aware that she needs an 80kW+ QC to get full rate, which is more than the typical mainstream buyer would know.

Although it's not certain, she also seems to be unaware of Plugshare, and is only used to using Chargepoint's website to look for charging.

As to the idea that speeding will get her there in less time, that's ICE conditioning for you, but just how you can sell "Drive slower so you get there faster" to the masses without causing them all to shrug and say "Why bother" remains an issue that no BEV company has yet figured out a solution to. Until faster QCs eliminate this ala Tesla, it will remain a big problem. She's already come to the most important conclusion, which is that the Bolt's far better suited as a 'no worries' daily driver for her than it is for beyond max. range road trips. The fact that she could have done the drive in say 7-8 hours instead of 5-6 if she had more of the knowledge available here, and was willing to act accordingly, is of minor importance.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

sparky
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:18 pm

Fast charging is one more thing that car companies need to hear about via their focus-group driven design approach. I took part in a focus group for the Bolt a while back and you could tell from the questions we were given that their primary concern was on the size of the pack and price (which GM did an admirable job with). The questions about charging were all about home charging rates from 240V EVSEs etc.

This author could have purchased a used Model S for the same price and made the trip in 6 hours with a moderately "lead foot" for free.
I made that trip yesterday (Pasadena to Santa Cruz; 338 miles ) in that time, including stopping for dinner. But then, she wouldn't have a story.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
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Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:32 pm

GRA wrote:...As to the idea that speeding will get her there in less time, that's ICE conditioning for you, but just how you can sell "Drive slower so you get there faster" to the masses...

Speeding (~80 mph on the freeway, as was the case here) will get her there in less time in any BEV with DC charge capability, and with DC charge sites at appropriate locations.

Several recent commentators seem not to understand this.

sparky wrote:...This author could have purchased a used Model S for the same price and made the trip in 6 hours with a moderately "lead foot" for free.
I made that trip yesterday (Pasadena to Santa Cruz; 338 miles ) in that time, including stopping for dinner. But then, she wouldn't have a story.

Future total cost of ownership per mile is likely to be much higher for the Tesla than for the Bolt, even if you buy a used beater Model S.

Once there are more ~50 kW DC sites on I-5, a Bolt will take only a few hours more to make a San-Francisco to LA trip than an ICEV.

But almost any ICEV will be able to make the trip faster than any BEV, even a ~$150,000 Tesla.
no condition is permanent

lorenfb
Posts: 1811
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:04 pm

GRA wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Sure. To you, me, and anyone else who frequents this forum. But it is a much better representation of a trip by a non-BEV-enthusiast. The so-called "mainstream" consumer which GM hopes to capture with the Bolt.

Articles like that don't enhance the likelihood that consumers will consider a transition from an ICEV to a BEV
in the near term. Hopefully, those articles are infrequent and/or don't reach the mainstream media!

On the contrary, they need to reach the mainstream media so we don't have a large number of quickly disillusioned mainstream consumers bitching about BEVs.


Really? You obviously missed the point, i.e. articles like that dissuade potential BEV buyers from further
consideration of a BEV, e.g. "I know now that a BEV is NOT for our family after seeing that NBC report on the
Bolt travel experience in CA". I assure you, if I were to refer friends of mine who have shown some very slight
interest in a BEV to that article, they would laugh and say "I can't believe you bought a BEV and still drive one!".

GRA wrote:GetOffYourGas is exactly right - if GM and the other BEV companies hope to expand beyond the early adopter base that frequents sites like this one, then this is exactly the sort of thing their customers will be dealing with, and it's not as if they're likely to get good info from dealership personnel.


On the contrary, it's the responsibility of the automotive industry to educate potential BEV buyers and avoid articles
like that from reaching the mainstream, and not hope that the market will "eventually sort itself out" and the
market will eventually learn the "true value of a BEV ownership" over time without proper marketing. That
type of article is not what the BEV market needs! Hopefully, GM will not incur another monthly decline in Bolt
sales this March.

Bottom Line: Mary Barra (GM CEO) needs to do some marketing "re-education" in the Bolt Product Marketing Group.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

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