GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1903
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:44 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Interesting. Honestly, these maps are more than I dreamed we'd have even just a few years ago. And yet it's nowhere near what we need. It will take a long time to really fill in, especially in "flyover country". We really do need cars with longer range than 150 miles in order to bridge the gaps, and that will be so for another half a decade at least.


Well we now have 5 new stations open (maybe 4?) with new ones coming online nearly every week for the next two years and that is just the beginning. So a "must be 250" mile EV is a limited time need. Yeah the buildout on the fringes has been pathetically slow and without VW's missteps we probably would still be wondering what to do.


Dave, you conveniently miss the part where Washington State has about the best infrastructure in the country. Your experience doesn't map to others', particularly those living in the middle of the country.

I regularly drive 300+ miles in a trip. I don't mind a single stop, but with a "150 mile" car, I would realistically have to stop twice (unless I drove the battery down to 0, and then waited for it to charge to 100%). In a New York winter, that 150 mile car becomes a <100 mile car, and now I need to stop 3 or 4 times to charge. So for me, 240 miles will always be far superior to 150 miles. Point being, don't try to fit everyone else into your mold.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 9234
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:54 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Interesting. Honestly, these maps are more than I dreamed we'd have even just a few years ago. And yet it's nowhere near what we need. It will take a long time to really fill in, especially in "flyover country". We really do need cars with longer range than 150 miles in order to bridge the gaps, and that will be so for another half a decade at least.


Well we now have 5 new stations open (maybe 4?) with new ones coming online nearly every week for the next two years and that is just the beginning. So a "must be 250" mile EV is a limited time need. Yeah the buildout on the fringes has been pathetically slow and without VW's missteps we probably would still be wondering what to do.


Dave, you conveniently miss the part where Washington State has about the best infrastructure in the country. Your experience doesn't map to others', particularly those living in the middle of the country.

I regularly drive 300+ miles in a trip. I don't mind a single stop, but with a "150 mile" car, I would realistically have to stop twice (unless I drove the battery down to 0, and then waited for it to charge to 100%). In a New York winter, that 150 mile car becomes a <100 mile car, and now I need to stop 3 or 4 times to charge. So for me, 240 miles will always be far superior to 150 miles. Point being, don't try to fit everyone else into your mold.

A longer range car will always be more convenient than a shorter range one for road trips, but you may well be covered on at least some routes in your area in the not too distant future: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locations

plus the first X-C route.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

lorenfb
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:46 pm

GRA wrote:A longer range car will always be more convenient than a shorter range one for road trips, but you may well be covered on at least some routes in your area in the not too distant future


Yes, of course! How naive it is to imply that a QC is useless for a low range BEV. Without having the QC capability here in SoCal and my need to
visit customers having a round trip of about 120 miles, my Leaf would be useless for business. Typically for round trips greater than 70 miles,
a needed QC lasts for only 10-15 minutes. Each low range BEV, e.g. 24/30kWh Leaf, owner has different needs as one might expect!
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

DarthPuppy
Posts: 685
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:51 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Some may recall the long discussion (on this thread, I believe) of how long it would take an Ioniq (with higher efficiency and slightly higher kW initial charge rate) to overtake a Bolt (equipped with ~twice the battery capacity) while on a long trip with multiple DC recharges.

Part one, below, does not give the final answer, but I expect part two will be posted shortly, on Bjorn's channel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3RqJRhNEE


Nice video. The 2nd part is available now. Very interesting how the two different approaches played out in this match up. (Nope, not gonna spoiler it for you - watch the video.)
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13199
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:23 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Interesting. Honestly, these maps are more than I dreamed we'd have even just a few years ago. And yet it's nowhere near what we need. It will take a long time to really fill in, especially in "flyover country". We really do need cars with longer range than 150 miles in order to bridge the gaps, and that will be so for another half a decade at least.


Well we now have 5 new stations open (maybe 4?) with new ones coming online nearly every week for the next two years and that is just the beginning. So a "must be 250" mile EV is a limited time need. Yeah the buildout on the fringes has been pathetically slow and without VW's missteps we probably would still be wondering what to do.


Dave, you conveniently miss the part where Washington State has about the best infrastructure in the country. Your experience doesn't map to others', particularly those living in the middle of the country.

I regularly drive 300+ miles in a trip. I don't mind a single stop, but with a "150 mile" car, I would realistically have to stop twice (unless I drove the battery down to 0, and then waited for it to charge to 100%). In a New York winter, that 150 mile car becomes a <100 mile car, and now I need to stop 3 or 4 times to charge. So for me, 240 miles will always be far superior to 150 miles. Point being, don't try to fit everyone else into your mold.


What?? WA State fell behind a LONG time ago. My "5 new stations" reference (most in the NE btw) is the Electrify America Network.

We did add ONE QC which is the first by the State in about what?? 5? 6 years? After that, EVGO came in and installed stations at the handful of malls they own in region but those were scattered too far apart but welcomed. We also got a few Walmart and Fred Meyer installs but our network is HIGHLY insufficient and weak not to mention that most of the AV stations don't work with the 2018 LEAF.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1903
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:04 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Well we now have 5 new stations open (maybe 4?) with new ones coming online nearly every week for the next two years and that is just the beginning. So a "must be 250" mile EV is a limited time need. Yeah the buildout on the fringes has been pathetically slow and without VW's missteps we probably would still be wondering what to do.


Dave, you conveniently miss the part where Washington State has about the best infrastructure in the country. Your experience doesn't map to others', particularly those living in the middle of the country.

I regularly drive 300+ miles in a trip. I don't mind a single stop, but with a "150 mile" car, I would realistically have to stop twice (unless I drove the battery down to 0, and then waited for it to charge to 100%). In a New York winter, that 150 mile car becomes a <100 mile car, and now I need to stop 3 or 4 times to charge. So for me, 240 miles will always be far superior to 150 miles. Point being, don't try to fit everyone else into your mold.


What?? WA State fell behind a LONG time ago. My "5 new stations" reference (most in the NE btw) is the Electrify America Network.

We did add ONE QC which is the first by the State in about what?? 5? 6 years? After that, EVGO came in and installed stations at the handful of malls they own in region but those were scattered too far apart but welcomed. We also got a few Walmart and Fred Meyer installs but our network is HIGHLY insufficient and weak not to mention that most of the AV stations don't work with the 2018 LEAF.


Lest this conversation get too far off track, let's remember we were talking about "fly-over country". Are you denying that WA State is better covered than the central plains states? WA had an early lead in the game, even over CA. While infrastructure growth may have stagnated, it's a huge stretch to say you have fallen behind. You still live in one of the best states in the nation for DCQC coverage.

You live in the PNW, I live in the Northeast. We are both relatively blessed when it comes to non-Tesla quick charging. But even here in NYS, a 150-mile Leaf would not give me sufficient range. The closest DCQC along my typical path is 140 miles away. Wintertime saps much more than 10 miles of range. You do the math.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

SageBrush
Posts: 2790
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:35 am

"fly-over" country starts way sooner than Kansas. Just look at CCS and ChadeMo in Colorado, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico or Nevada. Outside of a few select cities it is non-existent.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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paulgipe
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Leaf Number: 311200
Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:10 pm

Montana has zero DCFC stations.
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, used 10/3/16, sold
L2; ClipperCreek HCS-40; Jesla; JDapter Stub
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GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1903
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:48 pm

SageBrush wrote:"fly-over" country starts way sooner than Kansas. Just look at CCS and ChadeMo in Colorado, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico or Nevada. Outside of a few select cities it is non-existent.


I'm amused by your west-to-east perspective. From this side of the country, Kansas comes before Colorado, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, and Nevada.

I tend to think of the plains states as "fly over" country, and not the mountain states. At least the mountain states have scenery worth looking at! ;)

But to your point, really anytime you get away from the coasts, the CCS and CHAdeMO networks get really thin. I live in New York, but once you get inland, away from the I-95 corridor and the Hudson Valley, there is basically nothing.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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jlv
Posts: 862
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:19 am

paulgipe wrote:Montana has zero DCFC stations.

...other than the string of Tesla SCs along I90.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 33K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 27K mi
3 reservation canceled; X on order.

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