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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:25 am
by EVDRIVER
Stanton wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:All cars are pretty much just assemblies of stuff that comes from suppliers.


Yes...but not all the major systems in the car: motor/battery/inverter/charger !!!
At least Nissan designed most (if not all) of those for our Leafs...even if the (future) battery source is LG.


Exactly. Of course GM put all that in an econobox glider. They couldn't even spring for navigation in the car. I found that very annoying when I tried to see the maps and it may impact some data plans for users. When do you need a map the most? Perhaps in a remote area where there is no cell reception, really stupid design particularly for an EV.

At least Tesla makes the primary drive systems including the pack and the motors here in the US. The headlines of the Bolt as a Tesla killer is absurd. This could have been a really nice EV with some basic changes. Since everyone else was building it they sure had time to do that:)

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:47 am
by LTLFTcomposite
So GM becomes the second manufacturer to (mass?) produce an EV with > 200 mile range and the first to do so at an affordable price, but we don't like where they sourced the parts.

I guess I'll reserve my criticism for all the other manufacturers who haven't lifted finger to produce EVs beyond a few compliance cars.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:10 am
by EVDRIVER
LTLFTcomposite wrote:So GM becomes the second manufacturer to (mass?) produce an EV with > 200 mile range and the first to do so at an affordable price, but we don't like where they sourced the parts.

I guess I'll reserve my criticism for all the other manufacturers who haven't lifted finger to produce EVs beyond a few compliance cars.


I point this out because it is mostly made outside the US but many speak of it as it if is mostly made here. The Bolt is also a compliance car, that is pretty clear. Some in the press also want us to believe it is the first mass produced 200 mile production ev, no Tesla is mass produced as well. There seems to be many people saying they will buy the Bolt over another ev because it is made int he US, it seems to be the less so than others. GM had the resources, ability, and past experience to build a great EV, they really delivered a crippled product from what appears to be a compliance effort. Perhaps it's just bad designers in general. I think the 200 mile range love affair with this ev may fade fast after some use and other ev offerings. I don't think GM cares about this ev past the compliance and bragging rights.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:22 am
by WetEV
EVDRIVER wrote:The Bolt is also a compliance car, that is pretty clear.


How so?

If I can buy it in Seattle, I don't think of it as a compliance car. If I need to travel to Portland, it is a compliance car. Supposed to be for sale in Seattle this Spring... We will see.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:36 am
by EVDRIVER
WetEV wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:The Bolt is also a compliance car, that is pretty clear.


How so?

If I can buy it in Seattle, I don't think of it as a compliance car. If I need to travel to Portland, it is a compliance car. Supposed to be for sale in Seattle this Spring... We will see.


The build, the effort, the rollout, the push behind , the targeted states. If GM intended to make a mass selling EV this would not be it. Will you buy one?

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:47 am
by Joe6pack
Sounds like the typical Tesla fanboi (stockholder?) bashing anything that isn't Tesla. Personally, I am glad it doesn't have navigation. I prefer Android Auto and I am sure Apple CarPlay is just as nice. The Bolt is what it is. Don't like it, don't buy it, but it is hardly crippled.

And yes, in 12 months when I hand down the Leaf to my daughter, I will strongly consider the Bolt based on what else (Leaf 2.0, MIII) is available.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:28 am
by EVDRIVER
Joe6pack wrote:Sounds like the typical Tesla fanboi (stockholder?) bashing anything that isn't Tesla. Personally, I am glad it doesn't have navigation. I prefer Android Auto and I am sure Apple CarPlay is just as nice. The Bolt is what it is. Don't like it, don't buy it, but it is hardly crippled.

And yes, in 12 months when I hand down the Leaf to my daughter, I will strongly consider the Bolt based on what else (Leaf 2.0, MIII) is available.



I don't own Tesla stock and never have. I don't own a Tesla but will likely own one soon. I have been on their forum twice so I'm hardly a fanboy. Nor do I "bash" any EV because I am loyal to one brand. I have owned at least five different full EV makes. I see the Bolt as being crippled by GM to only reach a certain goal. I draw this opinion from many years of EV experience and people I know in the industry as well as my experiences from attending board level meetings of top tier car makers on EV development decision processes. As someone that has heard these confidential discussions first hand I draw these conclusions and opinions. No, I am not violating my NDA agreements in any way.

The BOLT will be a great EV for many buyers and I support many people in this purchase decision. On the other hand I find many things disappointing on this EV and those with experience in other similar priced EVs may see these points as well.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:58 am
by DaveinOlyWA
LTLFTcomposite wrote:So GM becomes the second manufacturer to (mass?) produce an EV with > 200 mile range and the first to do so at an affordable price, but we don't like where they sourced the parts.

I guess I'll reserve my criticism for all the other manufacturers who haven't lifted finger to produce EVs beyond a few compliance cars.


I guess we were pre conditioned by $100K Teslas so now $40K Bolts are affordable... :?

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:00 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
WetEV wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:The Bolt is also a compliance car, that is pretty clear.


How so?

If I can buy it in Seattle, I don't think of it as a compliance car. If I need to travel to Portland, it is a compliance car. Supposed to be for sale in Seattle this Spring... We will see.


+100

Hyundai is only supplying dealerships in the compliance states BUT says orders will be accepted from all 50 states. If you want to do it right, its really not rocket science.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:50 pm
by evnow
WetEV wrote:If I can buy it in Seattle, I don't think of it as a compliance car. If I need to travel to Portland, it is a compliance car. Supposed to be for sale in Seattle this Spring... We will see.

Just talked to a dealer - they think the Bolts will come here in Mar/Apr. Probably 2 Bolts allocated per dealer.

I don't think Bolt is a purely compliance car - it is more a tech halo car. Something GM can show to wall st as an answer to Tesla.

Is Ford Focus Electric a compliance car ? How about Merc B class ? Available in Seattle to buy - but not really "sold" here.

The problem with luke warm support in non-CARB states is that with little inventory and sales push - dealers have zero interest in making a sale. That means the car will be expensive, no deals available (unless OEM announces national deals).