GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:39 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Assuming you mean "Camry" then that's true enough. The Bolt, however, is not marketed as a soft riding family car, so your own comparison suffers. A single motor Model 3 is in the same class as the Bolt when it comes to acceleration, and just putting better tires on the Bolt would make it competitive with the Model 3 in handling. Not equal, but not a lot worse.


Moreover, the two cars (Bolt / Model 3) are often cross-shopped. I considered both as well as a 2018 / 2019 Leaf. I know they are different vehicles, but I wanted a long-range EV, and had a budget of under $40k. Therefore, I basically had three options.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:59 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:..Moreover, the two cars (Bolt / Model 3) are often cross-shopped. I considered both as well as a 2018 / 2019 Leaf. I know they are different vehicles, but I wanted a long-range EV, and had a budget of under $40k. Therefore, I basically had three options.

Two real "under $40k"options, and one (model 3) currently remaining imaginary...
no condition is permanent

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:54 am

edatoakrun wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:..Moreover, the two cars (Bolt / Model 3) are often cross-shopped. I considered both as well as a 2018 / 2019 Leaf. I know they are different vehicles, but I wanted a long-range EV, and had a budget of under $40k. Therefore, I basically had three options.

Two real "under $40k"options, and one (model 3) currently remaining imaginary...


As it stands today, the Leaf that I'd want/need is still "imaginary" as well. I'm sorry, but 40kWh is not a big upgrade from 24kWh to me and I ruled it out before the unveiling was over. I really need 200+ miles to go from a local/regional car to a truly long-range car. So I was comparing the base Model 3 and the 60kWh 2019 Leaf to the Bolt.

I suspect that I could get a 2019 Leaf at least 6 months before a <$40k Model 3 (no reservation), so don't worry - you will still have a few months to legitimately say that.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 9405
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:22 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
GRA wrote:Assuming this isn't just based on natural human variation and you don't normally wear polarized sunglasses while driving, I wonder if where you are is making the difference. It tends to be a lot sunnier in say California, and the sun will also be higher in the sky in summer and lower in winter. Has the glare been worse in one season than another?

Oh, anyone who does find the glare a problem, aftermarket dark-colored dash covers are widely available for under $100.

I do not wear polarized sunglasses, although I have blue eyes, which are naturally more photo-sensitive than say brown eyes. I would think that would make me more disposed to notice the glare, not less. But it's certainly a variable.

Indeed, blue-eyed people are more sensitive to light than brown-eyed. For anyone interested: https://www.essilorusa.com/newsroom/sensitive-to-light-blame-your-blue-eyes

GetOffYourGas wrote:Yes, it is sunny more often in CA than in upstate NY. In fact, it is overcast a large percentage of the year here. But we have sunny days too, believe it or not. And our sunny days are just as sunny as in CA. On those sunny days, I have never had a problem with too much glare.

I was referring mainly to the number of days of sun, not the amount when sunny. However, the bolded statement isn't strictly correct. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_climate#/media/File:Oblique_rays_04_Pengo.svg and https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+intensity+polar+and+temperate+zones&rlz=1CASMAD_enUS801US801&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiz46rjx9bbAhUSG3wKHX9mC6cQsAQIKQ&biw=1280&bih=686#imgrc=tRh8vVp6UyvB9M:

There's about 9 degrees of difference in the latitudes between Syracuse and L.A. (ca. 5.3 deg. in S.F.), and while fairly small, it does mean that the sunlight reaching you has to go through a bit more atmosphere.

GetOffYourGas wrote:The sun certainly is higher in the sky at more southern latitudes and that could be a factor. The glare does seem to be worse in the summer than the winter, which of course is when the sun is higher in the sky. And it's more noticeable at noon than at say 6pm. So maybe you're onto something there.

I suspect it's a combination of the above factors with the angle of the Bolt's windshield. For some related info pertinent to my AE days, see https://solarprofessional.com/articles/design-installation/evaluating-glare-from-roof-mounted-pv-arrays/page/0/1#.WyQu-ejwbEY

Then there are other physical factors:
Halos and glare can be caused by eye problems that keep the eye from properly focusing light onto your retina (the thin lining located in the back of the eye). Common eye problems that can cause halos and glare include:

    Nearsightedness (difficulty seeing things far away)

    Farsightedness (difficulty seeing things nearby)

    Presbyopia (difficulty seeing things nearby due to aging)

    Astigmatism (blurred vision due to irregular shape of the eye)
https://nonaeyemd.com/2015/09/30/halo-and-glare-causes/ Someone who could benefit from prescription lenses but doesn't have them, or whose prescription is a bit out of date may be more sensitive to glare.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13281
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:35 am

GRA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:After driving my Bolt with the light interior for 8 months, I can say hands-down that I have noticed glare on the window fewer than half a dozen drives. And it was never so bad - even in the most direct sunlight - that I had any issue with visibility. I think I only noticed it because the salesman tried to talk me out of the color. He said the glare would be unbearable. I am very glad I have the lighter interior, though - I just love the way it works.

Not disparaging anyone else's opinions or experience, just sharing my own.

Assuming this isn't just based on natural human variation and you don't normally wear polarized sunglasses while driving, I wonder if where you are is making the difference. It tends to be a lot sunnier in say California, and the sun will also be higher in the sky in summer and lower in winter. Has the glare been worse in one season than another?

Oh, anyone who does find the glare a problem, aftermarket dark-colored dash covers are widely available for under $100.


How can you not think location is important? Latitude is probably the biggest factor.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:31 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:After driving my Bolt with the light interior for 8 months, I can say hands-down that I have noticed glare on the window fewer than half a dozen drives. And it was never so bad - even in the most direct sunlight - that I had any issue with visibility. I think I only noticed it because the salesman tried to talk me out of the color. He said the glare would be unbearable. I am very glad I have the lighter interior, though - I just love the way it works.

Not disparaging anyone else's opinions or experience, just sharing my own.

Assuming this isn't just based on natural human variation and you don't normally wear polarized sunglasses while driving, I wonder if where you are is making the difference. It tends to be a lot sunnier in say California, and the sun will also be higher in the sky in summer and lower in winter. Has the glare been worse in one season than another?

Oh, anyone who does find the glare a problem, aftermarket dark-colored dash covers are widely available for under $100.

How can you not think location is important? Latitude is probably the biggest factor.

Seems to me I was pointing out that it was important. The question is how important compared to other variables? We could probably add driver biometrics and seat position/angle into the mix as well. Regardless, there's no question that AOTBE a dark-colored dash (preferably matte) will reflect much less onto the windshield than a light-colored one.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

bradbissell
Posts: 265
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Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 404629
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:23 am

I have a 2016 Volt with the light ash dashboard. In retrospect I should have waited for a black interior, but my Leaf lease was ending and I needed a car. The Volt has a ridiculous amount of glare off the windshield from the dashboard in all weather. I have fount that the drivers height has a direct impact on the amount of glare. I am 6'4" and therefore sit rather high increasing the amount of the dash I can see off the windshield. If I crouch in the seat (for testing purposes only, since it is very uncomfortable), the amount of glare is reduced, but is still present. The glare is exaggerated due to the two tone dash the Volt has.

GM should not have released the Bolt with the light dash based on their experience with the Volt. There is no way they didn't know it would be an issue, or everyone at GM is really short and can't see the reflection.
Silver/Black 2013 SV Manufactured, Leased March '13, Returned Dec '15
Silver/Dark Ash 2016 Volt LT

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:04 am

bradbissell wrote:GM should not have released the Bolt with the light dash based on their experience with the Volt. There is no way they didn't know it would be an issue, or everyone at GM is really short and can't see the reflection.


Once again, I absolutely love my Bolt with the light dash. I understand that people have different experiences - if this is yours, buy one of the other colors. But as for your assertion, I vehemently disagree.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 9405
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:27 pm

bradbissell wrote:I have a 2016 Volt with the light ash dashboard. In retrospect I should have waited for a black interior, but my Leaf lease was ending and I needed a car. The Volt has a ridiculous amount of glare off the windshield from the dashboard in all weather. I have fount that the drivers height has a direct impact on the amount of glare. I am 6'4" and therefore sit rather high increasing the amount of the dash I can see off the windshield. If I crouch in the seat (for testing purposes only, since it is very uncomfortable), the amount of glare is reduced, but is still present. The glare is exaggerated due to the two tone dash the Volt has.

GM should not have released the Bolt with the light dash based on their experience with the Volt. There is no way they didn't know it would be an issue, or everyone at GM is really short and can't see the reflection.

Sounds like you really need to get a dash cover. I imagine the Volt's windshield is more horizontal than the Bolt's, but I've never seen angles given. As for the Bolt, IIRR the chief designer's your height, although he may have a different torso/leg ratio: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2016/12/10/payne-qauto-chevy-bolt-evs-chief-speed-freak/95259830/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9405
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Via GCR:
2018 Chevy Bolt EV makes successful 2,000-mile road trip
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1118239_2018-chevy-bolt-ev-makes-successful-2000-mile-road-trip

Given the short daily distances I'd characterize this as a sequence of linked weekend-distance getaways rather than a road trip.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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