VTLeaf
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:52 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Apr 2015
Location: Brattleboro VT

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:11 pm

We wanted/needed more range and got impatient waiting for the Niro EV or 60kW Leaf. Niro looks to be small batches only for the foreseeable future, and were bummed about the staid (and dark) interior of the new Leaf -- it lost all its charm!

So we sold our much-loved 2013 SV on Craigslist and bought a leftover 2017 Bolt Premier deeply discounted.

The range is a revelation. The regen is awesome! The higher-grade infotainment/driver interfaces are a nice perk too. In retrospect, the Leaf interface was like my digital Timex watch.

My name is, now, a non-sequiter. Or, a reminder of really memorable days when we first started driving electric. Thank you Leaf and Leaf forum! I've really enjoyed sharing this part of a hopefully-more-sustainable automotive transition with you, and have learned a TON from all of your contributions!
Lightly-used off-lease electrics!
'13 Leaf SV
'14 CMax Energi SEL

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:16 pm

Via IEVS:
2019 Chevy Bolt May Have Better Seats, Improved Suspension
https://insideevs.com/2019-chevy-bolt-better-seats-suspension/

There is an upside to spending well over two hours “fast-charging” your Chevy Bolt in public, apparently: you may find yourself with lots of time for a chat with Mike Lelli, the chief engineer of that all-electric Chevrolet. At least, that was the case for one lucky owner. As a result, we believe we’ve learned about some minor, but much-needed improvements to the hatchback for 2019, including better seats.

If you’ve ever sat down in the Bolt, you may have regretted it. Not because of any fundamental problem with the vehicle. Indeed, it garnered Car-Of-The-Year accolades from Motortrend, the Detroit Free Press, and Popular Mechanics. . . .

The thing is, for some at least, the front chairs (pictured above) are somewhat underwhelming: too small and not enough padding are two of the more common complaints. To underline the level of dissatisfaction, shortly after the InsideEVs Forum launched, we were blessed with the creation of a thread titled “A new EV forum = The inevitable Bolt EV seat complaint thread!.” This is not to say that everyone has this same opinion. There are plenty of folks who have no problem whatsoever with either the size or the bolstering (or lack thereof) of the individual benches.

Now, though, it seems they’ve been improved. At least, that’s the tune Chevy Bolt EV Forum user “Fivedoor” is singing after spending about two hours chatting with the aforementioned head engineer during a chance encounter at a charging station. He recounts a pretty interesting encounter that you can read about here. . . .

I'm one of the people who had no problem with the seats in the LT I drove, but many obviously do, so this is welcome news. Her'es some quotes from Fivedoor's original post on the ChevyBolt.org forum:
Main differences in the 2019 are revised front seats, improved suspension (different springs and shocks) in the front to reduce thump and jounce when going over road imperfections, and having several choices of what % to charge the battery to rather than just having 88% hilltop reserve and 100%

I asked about upcoming improvements and he couldn't really talk about the future other than that GM is committed to an EV future. He did ask me what I thought needed improvement.

He said he knows that battery size and charging speed are the top two things, but what else?

I said that improvements to the infotainment system like displaying charging amps, voltage, and KW when fast charging instead of just time to 80% would be great, and having either wireless android auto or a native app based infotainment system with something like Google Maps or Ways rather than having to use a USB cable would be a big improvement. I also said that some form of spare tire at least as an option would be a hit, Millennials may think that a cell phone and AAA will get them out of any jam, but a side wall failure when you are in the middle of no-where without cell phone coverage would benefit from a compact spare. I pointed out how Mazda used to have a deflated (and thus even more compact) spare as standard equipment on the 1st gen Miata. I also said that AWD would be great at least as an option, for utility in a "crossover" as well as improved acceleration for performance enthusiasts.

He asked about adaptive cruise control and I said it would be great for long trips, and for people that commute in heavy traffic, but that super-cruise with lane centering rather than ping-pong back and forth lane keep assist would be even better.

When he asked if a larger battery or faster charging was more important I told him that my opinion had changed in the last 6 months due to the Electrify America build out and the plans for several coast to coast travel corridors. I now would prefer faster charging, over a larger battery, and that of course both would be welcome. . . .

I'm totally onboard with the need for a spare (and jack/lugwrench), and also would want most of the rest of the improvements he suggests, but the Bolt is about 10"-12" too short for me (want to be able to lie down stretched out in the back) plus no AWD, so that rules it out for me. Maybe some/all of this will show up on the Buick BECUV that's supposedly arriving soon.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:27 pm

Via IEVS:
A Little Secret GM Isn’t Telling Us About Improving The Bolt EV Battery
https://insideevs.com/secret-improvement-bolt-ev-battery/

What’s one of the biggest complaints about the Chevrolet Bolt EV (besides the seats)? Slow Charging. . . .

Why won’t GM make the Bolt EV charge faster?

Our resident heat transfer expert Keith Ritter made a very interesting discovery when analyzing the Bolt EV battery pack. It was part of a detailed heat transfer investigation of both the Tesla and the Chevrolet Bolt EV batteries.

Keith modeled the heat transfer aspects of the Bolt EV and we discovered that the pinch point for heat transfer out of the cells is the metal “fins” that go between the cell pouches and transfer heat down to the bottom plate. Those metal fins essentially limit the pack charging rate to what it is now.

Here’s another interesting discovery we’ve uncovered in the analysis: If you add another cooling plate ON TOP of the cells you get a factor of 3.5 heat transfer improvement. A factor of 3.5 I asked? It’s got to be a factor of 2. Two plates=twice the heat transfer. Right?

Wrong. There’s a compounding effect. Not only have you added another plate you have cut the effective length of the fin in half, thus the compounding effect.

Now get this. The top of the cells is nice and smooth exactly like the bottom of the cells. . . .

So the top of the cells are just ready to slap on another plate and we now have enough heat transfer to up the charging rate to 100+kw! . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Reddy
Posts: 1534
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:41 am

I'm not sure if others have reported on this, but I finally got to observe the Bolt EV charging on a newly installed 50 KW CCS. It took 90 min to reach 80% charge from 4%! So much for "Quick".
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13132
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:22 am

Reddy wrote:I'm not sure if others have reported on this, but I finally got to observe the Bolt EV charging on a newly installed 50 KW CCS. It took 90 min to reach 80% charge from 4%! So much for "Quick".


Yep. Despite the TMS, the knee is rather extreme. I saw a Bolt drop from 128 amps to 65 amps when it hit around 55%. I hoped that was an anomaly but apparently, it is not.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KeiJidosha
Gold Member
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 11:57 am
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2011
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:21 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:...I saw a Bolt drop from 128 amps to 65 amps when it hit around 55%. I hoped that was an anomaly but apparently, it is not.

Probably due to cold temps. Thermal management seems to deal with high temps fairly well.

Not my graphs, but my experience;
Image

Image
- 2009 BMW MINI E > 2013 Honda Fit EV > 2017 Chevy Bolt EV
- 2013 Ford C-Max Energi > Tesla Model 3 (Reservation) :?:

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:45 pm

IEVS posted an update to their earlier article about new seats and suspension for the 2019 Bolt:
***UPDATE: General Motors has contacted us regarding these possible changes to the 2019 Bolt. As it turns out, some information from Mike Lelli was likely misinterpreted. For the official record, front seat improvements were made for the Model Year 2018 Bolt and carry over for the 2019 Model Year. As for the suspension, the Bolt does not have a new setup for 2019, though GM says it’s always fine-tuning its products.


P.S. for those who can't get enough of cat videos, enjoy:
Litter Of Kittens Found Hitching A Ride In Chevy Bolt EV
https://insideevs.com/kittens-rescued-from-chevy-bolt-ev-rideshare/

No word on where the mom is, or what's being done with the kittens.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:50 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Reddy wrote:I'm not sure if others have reported on this, but I finally got to observe the Bolt EV charging on a newly installed 50 KW CCS. It took 90 min to reach 80% charge from 4%! So much for "Quick".


Yep. Despite the TMS, the knee is rather extreme. I saw a Bolt drop from 128 amps to 65 amps when it hit around 55%. I hoped that was an anomaly but apparently, it is not.


Definitely not an anomaly. KeiJidosha's graphs are correct. You ideally don't want to quick-charge a Bolt above 55% unless you really need it. Unfortunately, with today's QC spacing, you often really need it.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13132
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:29 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Reddy wrote:I'm not sure if others have reported on this, but I finally got to observe the Bolt EV charging on a newly installed 50 KW CCS. It took 90 min to reach 80% charge from 4%! So much for "Quick".


Yep. Despite the TMS, the knee is rather extreme. I saw a Bolt drop from 128 amps to 65 amps when it hit around 55%. I hoped that was an anomaly but apparently, it is not.


Definitely not an anomaly. KeiJidosha's graphs are correct. You ideally don't want to quick-charge a Bolt above 55% unless you really need it. Unfortunately, with today's QC spacing, you often really need it.


Well that is becoming less and less true. CCS was late out of the gate but they are coming on pretty fast now. EA's 4-1 or more ratio will see to that. Right now, there is a some incompatibilities that needs to be addressed but charging just to 55% should be more than enough to station hop very soon if not now.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:59 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Yep. Despite the TMS, the knee is rather extreme. I saw a Bolt drop from 128 amps to 65 amps when it hit around 55%. I hoped that was an anomaly but apparently, it is not.


Definitely not an anomaly. KeiJidosha's graphs are correct. You ideally don't want to quick-charge a Bolt above 55% unless you really need it. Unfortunately, with today's QC spacing, you often really need it.


Well that is becoming less and less true. CCS was late out of the gate but they are coming on pretty fast now. EA's 4-1 or more ratio will see to that. Right now, there is a some incompatibilities that needs to be addressed but charging just to 55% should be more than enough to station hop very soon if not now.


Assuming you let the battery run down to a reserve of 15%, that's only 40% to play with. 40% of 60kWh is 24kWh, which will safely get you about 70-90 miles on the highway, depending on weather conditions. That's certainly doable today on major corridors, like I-95 from DC to Boston. But on the lesser traveled routes (but still important), it's not enough until EA finishes their first round at least.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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