GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:43 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
Definitely not an anomaly. KeiJidosha's graphs are correct. You ideally don't want to quick-charge a Bolt above 55% unless you really need it. Unfortunately, with today's QC spacing, you often really need it.


Well that is becoming less and less true. CCS was late out of the gate but they are coming on pretty fast now. EA's 4-1 or more ratio will see to that. Right now, there is a some incompatibilities that needs to be addressed but charging just to 55% should be more than enough to station hop very soon if not now.


Assuming you let the battery run down to a reserve of 15%, that's only 40% to play with. 40% of 60kWh is 24kWh, which will safely get you about 70-90 miles on the highway, depending on weather conditions. That's certainly doable today on major corridors, like I-95 from DC to Boston. But on the lesser traveled routes (but still important), it's not enough until EA finishes their first round at least.

Then there's the soon-to-arrive competition, with both the Kona and Niro supporting 100kW max. charging on a slightly bigger battery than the Bolt, with a much later taper. Chevy will need to up their game to compete, especially as the Koreans will likely have the same or lower MSRP and won't be losing the fed. credit anytime soon.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:46 pm

Via IEVS:
Video Overview: 2019 Chevy Bolt Gives Drivers More Control
https://insideevs.com/2019-chevy-bolt-gets-welcome-software-updates/

More options for max. SoC:
. . . Previously, the Chevy Bolt provided an option for Hilltop Reserve. This setting would charge the vehicle to just under 90%. Officially this was intended to be used to gain energy while descending from a home or charging location from a high elevation.

Of course, for everyone else, there were still benefits. A 100% charge initially limits regenerative braking. Hilltop Reserve provides access to 1 pedal driving at the start of each day. It is also generally considered a good practice to keep a lithium-ion battery charged between 20% and 80%.

Now the Bolt EV will let you choose your own maximum target charge. When demonstrated in the video, the user can choose anywhere between a 40% and 100% state of charge.

The other user convenience feature is separating the heat and A/C controls. Previously, the climate would automatically switch between heat and A/C depending on the exterior and interior temperatures. This generally works well, although it can sometimes be troublesome. If the temperature drastically changes during the day, the heater could come on unintentionally for instance. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:42 pm

^^^
Thanks for that! You beat me to the punch.

I wonder if anyone at Nissan is taking notice. At the Phoenix town hall in Jan 2013 (viewtopic.php?t=11057) which I watched the entire video of, someone stood up and asked Nissan to provide choices like that so that hot climate Leaf drivers could help Nissan.

Instead, Nissan went backwards and took away the charge to 80% choice starting w/US model year 2014 and has provided no choices since then. :(

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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:13 am

cwerdna wrote:^^^
Thanks for that! You beat me to the punch.

I wonder if anyone at Nissan is taking notice. At the Phoenix town hall in Jan 2013 (viewtopic.php?t=11057) which I watched the entire video of, someone stood up and asked Nissan to provide choices like that so that hot climate Leaf drivers could help Nissan.

Instead, Nissan went backwards and took away the charge to 80% choice starting w/US model year 2014 and has provided no choices since then. :(


+1. I also feel that 90% is not a good option in more extreme climates especially when many Bolters are only charging a few times a week.

Should charge every day and the ability to set the SOC limit to a level that allows that for shorter commuting needs is something all EVs should have.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:28 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote: +1. I also feel that 90% is not a good option in more extreme climates especially when many Bolters are only charging a few times a week.

Should charge every day and the ability to set the SOC limit to a level that allows that for shorter commuting needs is something all EVs should have.

Until such time as battery tech has eliminated this issue.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:04 pm

GRA wrote:Until such time as battery tech has eliminated this issue.
Agreed. Unfortunately batteries are rarely, if ever, tested for calendar life characteristics by the manufacturers. Instead, cycle life gets tested, which inherently limits the percent of time at a high SOC to a somewhat small fraction.

Plus, as battery life improves, testing calendar life gets even more difficult. (Dr. Jeff Dahn seems to have a good solution for testing cycle life very quickly.)
RegGuheert
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SageBrush
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:36 am

GRA wrote:Then there's the soon-to-arrive competition, with both the Kona and Niro supporting 100kW max. charging on a slightly bigger battery than the Bolt, with a much later taper.

Not even close to being correct. Watch the Bjorn Nyland video
I don't understand why, but CCS requires liquid cooled cables for > 200 Amps. 100 kW is ~ 275 Amps

https://youtu.be/pRGgOdjXWOY
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:38 am

Wow, that taper looks very familiar. Yes, they are higher charge rates, but similar taper points, with sudden aggressive cuts to the power. I wonder why they are doing that rather than a smoother taper like Tesla does.
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GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:18 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:Then there's the soon-to-arrive competition, with both the Kona and Niro supporting 100kW max. charging on a slightly bigger battery than the Bolt, with a much later taper.

Not even close to being correct. Watch the Bjorn Nyland video
I don't understand why, but CCS requires liquid cooled cables for > 200 Amps. 100 kW is ~ 275 Amps

https://youtu.be/pRGgOdjXWOY

Thanks for that. I stand corrected. It will be interesting to see if the taper points change when charged by a QC that can provide 100kW.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:42 pm

Jalopnik review:
The 2018 Chevrolet Bolt EV Makes the Electric Car Feel Normal, and That’s the Point
https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-chevrolet-bolt-makes-the-electric-car-feel-nor-1828783814

The very first thing I noticed when I stepped into the 2018 Chevrolet Bolt was the gear selector. Upright, situated between the two front seats, familiar P-R-N-D-L markings. That gear selector speaks volumes about what this electric car is trying to be.

No buttons, no stalk off to the side like a Tesla or even a Toyota Prius, no rotary knob. The Bolt’s gear selector looks like something you’d find on any modern car, because that’s what everybody knows and understands, even though this single-speed electric car hardly needs it.

It’s one of many examples of how this car wants to help usher in the electric car revolution by being, well... normal. . . .

What’s Great

The Bolt’s awesome at just being a car. It was interesting to drive this nearly back-to-back with the Tesla Model 3 Performance, a car I really enjoyed spending time with. The difference in philosophy couldn’t be more stark.

The Tesla, perhaps to a fault at times, tries to reinvent the wheel even when it doesn’t need to, with its phone-app door unlocking, buttons to unlock doors, ultra-minimalist interior and many key functions relegated to a touch screen.

The Bolt takes the opposite approach. Anyone could get into this EV and figure it out. In fact, if you put a totally car agnostic person into it, they may not even realize it’s electric. Not at first, anyway. . . .

What’s Weak

The Bolt’s definitely not much to look at from the outside. I mean, it’s fine. It’s not ugly, but it’s not distinctive or visually striking in really any way. It could easily be mistaken for any other hatchback or small crossover. This tracks with the normalcy GM was going for, but I think a bit more visual flair wouldn’t have hurt . . .

The biggest letdown is the interior, which while roomy, is extremely blah. The Model 3 may be ultra bare-bones, but at least it’s a premium-feeling place to spend time. The Bolt’s economy car roots really come through on the inside. The dash is made of this hard, plasticky white textured material that looks more like styrofoam than anything else. All of it feels like a cut-rate knockoff of the BMW i3, without any of the coolness.

The seats were similarly disappointing. They’re flat in the back and bottom and feel especially thin-padded, so I never really got comfortable in them. I feel like extreme-distance road-tripping would be quite a punishment for your back. . . .

Casual Driving

Seat gripes aside, the Bolt’s a pleasant and even rewarding car to drive daily. It’s best when you think of it as a city car plus: definitely meant to be an electric commuter, but with far less anxiety about your range than the 80-mile EVs that seem to only exist to satisfy California regulations.

I drove the Bolt from my neighborhood in Brooklyn to Gizmodo Media’s offices near Union Square Park every day I had it, a commute that’s only about six miles one way. (And it usually takes 40 minutes to an hour, because New York.) I never once got concerned about range during those drives; indeed, I had to make a special trip out of the city to really use up some of that 238-mile full charge I was given.

Even in the city, it’s pretty fun to drive. It has enough juice that you can pass and dart between other cars when you need to with ease, and it’s small enough that it’s remarkably easy to park. The ride quality’s great, and it’s so quiet inside that it’s actually quite calming to operate. A great insulator from the chaos and noise of the city for sure.

I enjoy engine sounds as much as the next speed freak, but the Bolt’s the easiest car to have a room-volume conversation in I’ve experienced to date. . . .

Value

The Bolt starts at $36,620. Our tester was a Bolt Premier, the better of the two trims available, which starts at $41,780. The Premier includes leather seats and a variety of lane change and parking aids.

With options like that sweet roof rack, our car came to $43,905. All of that is before the $7,500 EV tax credit, which would bring its “true” price to $36,405.

Here’s the thing: At that price, about the average new car transaction price these days, the Bolt’s a solid deal. But with the bland seats, the econo-hatch looks and the decidedly not premium interior, the Bolt is not a mid-$40,000 car. It just isn’t. If you want one of these, do yourself a favor and get it before the credit expires.

When it does, Chevrolet is going to have to drop the price, make it more premium somehow or shift over to some electric crossover SUV thing that’s similar under the skin but can justify the steeper price, the way all crossovers seem to do.

Value

The Bolt starts at $36,620. Our tester was a Bolt Premier, the better of the two trims available, which starts at $41,780. The Premier includes leather seats and a variety of lane change and parking aids.

With options like that sweet roof rack, our car came to $43,905. All of that is before the $7,500 EV tax credit, which would bring its “true” price to $36,405.

Here’s the thing: At that price, about the average new car transaction price these days, the Bolt’s a solid deal. But with the bland seats, the econo-hatch looks and the decidedly not premium interior, the Bolt is not a mid-$40,000 car. It just isn’t. If you want one of these, do yourself a favor and get it before the credit expires.

When it does, Chevrolet is going to have to drop the price, make it more premium somehow or shift over to some electric crossover SUV thing that’s similar under the skin but can justify the steeper price, the way all crossovers seem to do.

Verdict

In so many ways, the Bolt is a win. It’s priced well (as long as that EV credit exists), it’s fun enough, it’s practical and it’s easy to live with. You almost can’t ask for a better way to ease people into electric cars. Yes, charging was a pain, but I would have sorted it eventually, and most drivers won’t have to deal with New York City headaches like I did.

I was kind of surprised that I came to many of the same conclusions about the Bolt that my colleague Kristen Lee did about the Tesla Model 3 Long Range she tested. (I was on vacation when she had that car, and I did not get to drive it.) Even if the Model 3 does some radical things with its design and interior, at the end of the day it’s trying to drive like a normal, range-anxiety-free car would, and the Bolt is attempting the exact same thing. I think that normal-ness is what the EV market needs most right now.

And like Kristen, I’m not ready to have this as my only car, and not just for charging and range reasons. I’d miss engine noise, shifting gears myself and all the other irrational things I love about internal combustion cars. But there was something rewarding, even tranquil, about driving around in something I knew wasn’t contributing to air pollution, gas consumption and the climate shifts likely to finish us all of someday.

Would the Bolt make a good daily alongside some old, weird, fun and terrible Jalop-mobile? You could do a lot worse than that combo.

There's a lot more in the article.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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