cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:19 am

(continuing discussion here)
LeftieBiker wrote:Would you be leasing a Bolt, or buying one? GMAC puts crazy high residuals on the cars, making them affordable to lease but definitely overpriced to buy off-lease. They essentially push the tax credit into the residual...

I plan to buy a Bolt new. Bolt leases w/enough miles (10K/year will NOT cut it as I plan to sell my Prius and Leaf) look too expensive to me.

I looked into used Bolts. The pickings are slim and they're a terrible deal considering how much a discounted new one is minus $7500 tax credit. Not worth it. I suspect there are few off lease Bolts since they came out in Dec 2016. Perhaps that'll change once 3 year and 39 month lease returns enter the market?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:00 am

cwerdna wrote:(continuing discussion here)
LeftieBiker wrote:Would you be leasing a Bolt, or buying one? GMAC puts crazy high residuals on the cars, making them affordable to lease but definitely overpriced to buy off-lease. They essentially push the tax credit into the residual...

I plan to buy a Bolt new. Bolt leases w/enough miles (10K/year will NOT cut it as I plan to sell my Prius and Leaf) look too expensive to me.

I looked into used Bolts. The pickings are slim and they're a terrible deal considering how much a discounted new one is minus $7500 tax credit. Not worth it. I suspect there are few off lease Bolts since they came out in Dec 2016. Perhaps that'll change once 3 year and 39 month lease returns enter the market?


Would be interested in a review after you have had the Bolt for a while.

As far as leasing? Bolt leases were never a good idea despite the BS on this thread.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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BrockWI
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:33 am

When I looked at the Bolt the lease was way more than the Leaf, like $250 / month more. At the time Nissan was still taking the $7500 off the top which helps but GM was not and I am sure they were taking the $7500 credit. I had heard Nissan wasn't passing the whole $7500 on leases any more?
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13557
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:04 am

BrockWI wrote:When I looked at the Bolt the lease was way more than the Leaf, like $250 / month more. At the time Nissan was still taking the $7500 off the top which helps but GM was not and I am sure they were taking the $7500 credit. I had heard Nissan wasn't passing the whole $7500 on leases any more?


That is true...actually I should say, that was true. I am guessing Nissan's incentives might be taking a dive since Munoz was a key supporter of US incentives (which Japanese leaders of Nissan were against) and has bailed from the company likely over the Ghosn situation.

that being said; who knows what lies in the hearts of men?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:32 pm

I looked into used Bolts. The pickings are slim and they're a terrible deal considering how much a discounted new one is minus $7500 tax credit. Not worth it. I suspect there are few off lease Bolts since they came out in Dec 2016. Perhaps that'll change once 3 year and 39 month lease returns enter the market?


The Bolt forum has a few people debating whether or not to turn the cars in our buy them. The high residuals are the big stumbling block. My guess is that you'll see some more coming up for sale, but not like the flood of off-lease Leafs likely in the next year or two.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:43 am

cwerdna wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:I have only have the link that someone Mike? provided on Seattle EVA page which I am sure is the one you referred to earlier.

I didn't find anything on Seattle EVA.

Felix over at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... %22R%22%7D is asserting $6500 to $7000 discount but then pointed to Martin Chevrolet which has artificially low by $1500 prices because of the $1500 current GM lessee discount which I wouldn't be eligible for.

If your $7K reference is to that, in reality, it's $5K to $5.5K.

Ok. So, I submitted a request for quote via Consumer Reports auto buying service which apparently uses TrueCar. It came back with 3 dealers and the prices have a big variance. One is WAY too high and another is pretty high.

The best one has prices lower than any openly advertised prices on Bay Area (and some beyond) dealers I've checked. The discount there off MSRP ends up being $5,957. It's about $1500 below Edmunds TMV and about $4100 below invoice.

I also submitted a request for Costco's program. The dealer happens to be the same as the above, but I won't find out the price until I get there. It may not be a better deal.

I spoke with 2 Bolt drivers and Facebook PMed 2 others earlier today. They all liked the range. Two of them mentioned buggy software for the car's electronics (running the dash LCD and the other large LCD). Three of them had Leafs before (and one still has one, I believe). Only one mentioned the seats were terrible, but she's a wide person so I can totally get that.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:52 am

Some dealers order cars without popular options like DCFC and the comfort package (heated seats and wheel) for a lower price, and then end up having to discount them more. Decide what options are must-have and which are optional, so you can narrow it down. Also decide if you are ok with the interiors that have blinding-white dashboards. GM really made deciding on a Bolt a game of "How much annoyance and disappointment can I stand?" I know you want a Premiere for the AVM, and IIRC they MAY all come with the heated seats and wheel, but double-check that.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:07 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Some dealers order cars without popular options like DCFC and the comfort package (heated seats and wheel) for a lower price, and then end up having to discount them more. Decide what options are must-have and which are optional, so you can narrow it down. Also decide if you are ok with the interiors that have blinding-white dashboards. GM really made deciding on a Bolt a game of "How much annoyance and disappointment can I stand?" I know you want a Premiere for the AVM, and IIRC they MAY all come with the heated seats and wheel, but double-check that.

I'm getting Premier trim, no exceptions. Surround Vision (equivalent of AVM) is a must. I will have big regrets if I don't get that.

I may listen to the base stereo to see if it's acceptable, but I didn't really notice many dealers having a Premiers with DC FC but no infotainment package (adds Bose stereo). I suspect I would have regrets if I didn't get the better stereo.

As for DC FC inlet, I'm intending this to be my only car. DC FC is must given that I can only charge at 120 volts at home and have to go elsewhere for L2 (work or (now very limited/hard to get) free public L2 charging).

Yeah, I'd heard about the complaints of dashboard reflection and I asked one driver about that. She said yes. For the exterior colors I'm interested in: summit white, silver ice metallic and possibly slate gray metallic (haven't seen one in person yet), there are only 2 or 3 interior colors. Seems like one of them, the "light ash gray..." has a lighter dash. I'll probably avoid that one, if I can.

Yes, I've seen numerous Bolts when browsing inventory without DC FC of both the LT (lower) trim and Premier. No thanks.

One of the drivers I spoke to complained about the sun visors. She said they basically weren't tall enough to block much and didn't have extenders (she had a Leaf S before that was I think '14 or '15). Sure enough, from https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt- ... -2017.html, it seems like the visors are crap (like '11 or '12 Leafs).

https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt- ... -2017.html has a mention that they unintentionally pushed their Bolt to the limits on a charge. They did 322 miles on a charge!

One thing that was quite surprising when comparing specs is that Bolt is 11 inches shorter than gen 1 Leaf: 164 vs. 175 inches.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:59 am

You'll be surprised at how small the Bolt is in "person" if you haven't walked around one yet. It is tall enough and just wide enough to avoid seeming like a Tiny Car, though, and the interior at least looks roomy. The seats...well, if you find a specific car you like, and the driver's seat feels hard, or jabs you in the left thigh, that can be fixed - or at least ameliorated a bit. If you are a smaller guy that will help a lot. There seems to be too much variation from car to car to be explained by anything other than GM deciding to practice random acts of cruelty. I think there is a fix for the visor, but I don't recall details. I spent a LOT of time in the Bolt forum on this site, and it was useful. You should check it out. If you click on the forum, at the top of the page here, and are lucky, the site will offer to sign you in there, as well.

Oh, and about the dash: I decided that there were two interiors I could stand: the ash grey, and one with a checkerboard white & dark grey on the seats. ALL of the Bolts have white pieces on the dash, though, I now recall. The sales guy told me (as he was instructed, no doubt) that people get used to the white easily enough. I wasn't sure, but...my Leaf SL has the white interior, with white dash. I put cheap but nicely patterned black & grey covers on the seats, so I only think about them in the context of how $##@! hard that leather is in cold weather. But the dash too really has faded from my attention, and the car is a bit cooler in Hot weather...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:31 am

^^^
Thanks for the info.

I definitely have walked around Bolts as we have at least a dozen or two at my work. I sometimes plug them in. And, some of them show up to free public L2 charging I use. I went looking in our work's EV/PHEV registry to see how many '19 Bolts there were of the the new for '19 "slate gray metallic" color (https://electrek.co/2018/05/08/chevy-bo ... s-updates/) and there were none. I don't care about the other two new colors. At least I walked by one silver Bolt (my 1st choice). One Bolt driver I spoke to has a dark grey one (I dislike that color). Her former Leaf was the color, as well.

One thing that is a bit concerning long term is about how well the seats will hold up per https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt- ... -2018.html. They said
Interior
"The Bolt's been in our fleet for 18 months [since February 2017], but I recently drove it for the first time. I have to admit my first impression upon opening the driver's door was 'rental car.' It's looking pretty tired for a vehicle with less than 20,000 miles. The fabric on the driver's seat is well-worn with some evident stretching. The mats were dirty and spotted. Maybe we've been extra hard on this car, but we spent just north of $42,000 on the Bolt. And you'd expect a car that costs that much to hold up a little better.

Funny they said "fabric" because I looked back and they got a Premier trim which should've had leather. Judging by other pics in the long-term updates, they seem to have leather.

I already know the interior quality isn't great.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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