edatoakrun
Posts: 5221
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Tue May 26, 2015 9:59 am

First drive report below.

IMO, every PHEV should have a Battery charge mode, allowing the driver to selectively control SOC for city driving, or (more importantly for me) large ascents.

Drive modes. The 2016 Sonata PHEV has three operating modes:

•EV mode. EV mode, or all-electric battery charge depleting mode, can handle speeds up to approximately 75 mph (121 km/h). This is the default mode for the Sonata PHEV, and is recommended for city driving.


•Hybrid mode. In hybrid mode (charge sustaining mode), the Sonata PHEV operates much like its HEV sibling—one of the major exceptions being the lack of a Sport Mode, which is available on the Sonata Hybrid.


•Battery charge mode. A long press on the HEV toggle switch on the center console invokes battery charge mode, which uses engine power to run the traction motor as a generator to recharge the battery pack more rapidly.

In our relatively short test drive, we found this last feature to be very compelling and well implemented. A typical use case scenario would be starting out on a longer drive or commute in EV mode, and moving onto a high-speed highway some miles into the drive. The Sonata PHEV is perfectly capable of handling (legal) Interstate speeds on battery pack alone; however, such operation depletes the battery relatively quickly...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/05 ... onata.html

Probably an even bigger win for Hyundai in the sales market:


Android Auto Review: The Smartphone Finally Finds Its Rightful Home in the Car

A future without slow, unintuitive in-dash navigation systems is on the horizon



May 26, 2015 8:00 a.m. ET

I am petrified when my dad is behind the wheel.

His car’s $1,500 in-dash navigation system is riddled with menus so complex and unintuitive they should require a pilot’s license. So instead of keeping his eyes on the road, he splits his time between fidgeting with the screen and fighting with the robotic woman’s voice emanating from the dashboard. (She usually wins.)

It gets worse. Lately, he has taken to driving around with his smartphone in his lap instead. Google Maps and Waze are easier and more up-to-date and accurate than his fancy system, he tells me. As if I didn’t know.

But this isn’t just about my dad. It’s about how a safer, better system is hitting the road for the 70% of drivers who use their smartphones’ maps and other features while driving, according to a new study by AT&T. It’s about how I wish they would all be able to get Android Auto in their cars.

Starting this week, the 2015 Hyundai Sonata will be the first car to include Google’s new in-car software. When you plug your Android smartphone into the car’s USB port, the vehicle’s center screen is taken over by an interface with your phone’s maps, music and other street-legal features.

Apple ’s CarPlay, hitting mainstream cars this year, does something similar for iPhone users. (I spent some time with it, but will write an in-depth review only after I can drive with it for a few days.)

After a week cruising around with Android Auto, I’m convinced this is the future of in-dash technology. Taking the software design out of the hands of car makers and putting it in the hands of phone makers should have happened long ago.

Google’s mobile talents—maps, speech recognition, Google Now—are great behind the wheel...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/android-aut ... 1432641601
no condition is permanent

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10605
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Tue May 26, 2015 6:38 pm

Well, unlike Nissan, at least Hyundai understands ongoing updates...

"Looking more like a computer company than a car company, Hyundai ships Android Auto on 2015 Sonatas and unlocks it for owners of the earlier Sonatas with a software update.
Says the article:
To enable Android Auto, existing Hyundai Sonata owners outfitted with the Navigation feature can download an update to a USB drive, plug it into the car's USB port, and rewrite the software installed in the factory on the head-unit. When the smartphone is plugged into the head-unit with a USB cable, the user is prompted to download Android Auto along with mobile apps. Android Auto requires Android 5.0 or above."
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

GRA
Posts: 8898
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Tue May 26, 2015 6:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
GRA wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote: The PIP can easily get 10+ miles "continuous" AER, with no particular "care" except not literally flooring it. I'm not sure why people don't just note that its actual AER of about 15 miles Summer, 10 miles Winter (with heat off), isn't enough, instead of misrepresenting it...
I say it because that doesn't seem to be possible for the average driver driving as they typically do, as opposed to EV geeks who get off on seeing how far they can stretch the AER. I've been able to 'easily' exceed the EPA highway MPG on every car I've owned, but that doesn't mean that the typical driver does so.

Our PIP is driven my my housemate, a woman who hates/fears EVs (She won't even drive my Leaf unless I'm with her, and doesn't like it when she does) and is not a Geek of any sort - she's more a technophobe. She drives a little slowly (55-60MPH) on the highway, but often accelerates faster than I do. She easily gets the ranges I quoted above. She does tend to leave the A/C off, but that doesn't make a big difference in 95% of our driving. I'm willing to bet that anyone who drives a Prius and gets at least 50MPG (that's most of the eco-minded Prius drivers, not just the hypermilers) can get at least 12 miles EV range in a PIP in mild weather.
That just makes the point that the average Prius owner isn't the average driver (which we already knew). After all, they've already opted for a car that excels in just one area of driving, while falling short in every other driving quality. If the mainstream driver transitions to PHEVs, they aren't going to drive like the typical Prius owner will, and will require more AER as well as a car that doesn't require a light foot on the accelerator to achieve that AER.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1493
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Tue May 26, 2015 7:51 pm

This car is optimized for maximum range on combined fuel. I'd be happy if the gas tank were smaller and the maximum range was only 3x the (AER) EV miles so long as the total range is over 200 miles.

with the current 2016 config it is 24 miles EV out of 605 total range for a ratio of 1 EV mile for every 25 miles of hybrid range.

I'd rather see a larger battery and a smaller gas tank to get more EV miles and lose some overall range. Say 50 miles AER and gas tank enough to do the other 150 miles in hybrid mode.

I can stop for gas anywhere but if this thing doesn't have a supercharger or chademo port my options for charging on a trip will be too slow to bother.

I had to drive my used Leaf over the mountains coming from NC to TN and the TN portion was a wasteland of nothing faster than L2 charging. Sure in a PHEV you just gas up and keep going but that sort of thinking taken to the extreme of 25 to 1 range just promotes people not even figuring out how to charge the car and drive it on gas all the time.

That's how you end up finding a used PHEV on autotrader with 3% EV miles and 97% hybrid miles driven after 36,000 miles. People just don't bother to charge if it is too slow and they have a big gas tank.
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss
(efficiency 3.x KW vs 6.x KW)
please join Truedelta.com and input your repairs.

DanCar
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Tue May 26, 2015 7:57 pm

I created a little spreadsheet with features that are important to me considering the Sonata PHEV, Volt, and Leaf. Summary: Lots of nice features but want something with more cargo space. I'm most looking forward to the Outlander PHEV because of size.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Code: Select all

      Hyundai plug-in   Volt 2016   Leaf 2016
Interior space   legroom (F+R=T)   45.5 + 35.6 = 81.1   42.1 + 34.7 = 76.8   41.2 + 37.3 = 78.5
   cargo space cu ft   9.9   10.6   23.6
   Hip room   56.1   51.3   50
            
EV Range   miles   22   50   100
Gas Range      600   400   0
            
Android Auto      Y   N   N
Apple Carplay      Y   N   N
            
Adaptive Cruise Control      y   y   n
Stop start cruise control      y   n   n
Lane departure warning      y   y   n
Panoramic Sunroof      y   n   n
I'm curious to see what the batteries look like in the trunk of the PHEV if anyone comes across one.

GRA
Posts: 8898
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Thu May 28, 2015 4:20 pm

dhanson865 wrote:This car is optimized for maximum range on combined fuel. I'd be happy if the gas tank were smaller and the maximum range was only 3x the (AER) EV miles so long as the total range is over 200 miles.

with the current 2016 config it is 24 miles EV out of 605 total range for a ratio of 1 EV mile for every 25 miles of hybrid range.

I'd rather see a larger battery and a smaller gas tank to get more EV miles and lose some overall range. Say 50 miles AER and gas tank enough to do the other 150 miles in hybrid mode.

I can stop for gas anywhere but if this thing doesn't have a supercharger or chademo port my options for charging on a trip will be too slow to bother.

I had to drive my used Leaf over the mountains coming from NC to TN and the TN portion was a wasteland of nothing faster than L2 charging. Sure in a PHEV you just gas up and keep going but that sort of thinking taken to the extreme of 25 to 1 range just promotes people not even figuring out how to charge the car and drive it on gas all the time.

That's how you end up finding a used PHEV on autotrader with 3% EV miles and 97% hybrid miles driven after 36,000 miles. People just don't bother to charge if it is too slow and they have a big gas tank.
I agree that the road range is excessive, although I don't know that they need to increase the AER. I think it would be more important to drop the total range to say 400 miles, but remove the encroachment into the cargo area by the battery. As long as people are paying a significant premium for a PHEV and the AER is enough to seem worth charging (a Prius' isn't away from home, for most people), they will do so. The problem you mention strikes me as more typical of company cars, where the employees are compensated for gas but not for electricity. That's an easy fix.
Last edited by GRA on Fri May 29, 2015 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Valdemar
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Fri May 29, 2015 9:26 am

'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11441
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Fri May 29, 2015 11:07 am

DanCar wrote:I created a little spreadsheet with features that are important to me considering the Sonata PHEV, Volt, and Leaf. Summary: Lots of nice features but want something with more cargo space. I'm most looking forward to the Outlander PHEV because of size.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
...I'm curious to see what the batteries look like in the trunk of the PHEV if anyone comes across one.


Isn't Sonata PHEV the direct competitor of Ford Fusion PHEV ?
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

DanCar
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Fri May 29, 2015 1:28 pm

evnow wrote:
DanCar wrote:I created a little spreadsheet with features that are important to me considering the Sonata PHEV, Volt, and Leaf. Summary: Lots of nice features but want something with more cargo space. I'm most looking forward to the Outlander PHEV because of size.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
...I'm curious to see what the batteries look like in the trunk of the PHEV if anyone comes across one.
Isn't Sonata PHEV the direct competitor of Ford Fusion PHEV ?
Yes, but already know I don't like the Fusion PHEV because of lack of trunk space. Turns on the Sonata has the same issue. Geez, you'd think they would learn something and put the batteries underneath or in the hump. A shame because I like all the features of the Sonata, like stop start cruise control.
Last edited by DanCar on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

GRA
Posts: 8898
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 22 EV miles, on sale later 2015

Sat May 30, 2015 4:37 pm

Brad Berman has collected a bunch of quotes from various sites' first drive impressions, at plugincars.com: http://www.plugincars.com/survey-first- ... 30758.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”