scottf200
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:53 am

EVforRobert wrote:
finman100 wrote:I haven't quite wrapped my head around the Volt versus Leaf? Why would someone compare (or want) a gas engine hybrid commuter to an all-electric EV?


Weekend trips and vacations are possible with a PHEV. Almost all my gas miles were on five trips. Most days I never used gas by charging at home or public chargers. The Volt is an extremely capable and versatile vehicle!
I just got back from an extended road trip to Asheville, NC and Nashville, TN. 1500+ miles. Lot of fairly long hills both up and down. 2011 Volt worked outstanding with max regen turned on (L-ow) and Mountain Mode. Stayed at a AirBNB location in Asheville where I charged overnight. Great driving around the area for hikes using quiet electric drive.

Not quite easy in a Tesla yet but pretty close. Will need to take a long drive in the wife's 2016 Volt in another month to see how it cruises.

Current: http://supercharge.info/
Image

2016 Superchargers - http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
Image
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DarthPuppy
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:28 pm

finman100 wrote:I haven't quite wrapped my head around the Volt versus Leaf? Why would someone compare (or want) a gas engine hybrid commuter to an all-electric EV?


They compare them because they are direct competitors - environmentally friendlier, efficient, affordable cars. Yes they represent 2 different solutions to the environmentally friendly and affordable challenge with their corresponding pros and cons. But they are competing for the same market so of course they are going to be compared. and when you consider these are the 2 market leaders in that space, it makes even more sense. When comparing the 2 solutions, why not compare the 2 best as identified by market share?

Now there are fanboys who will only consider one solution and poopoo any other ideas. You can read their posts on the boards discussing fuel cell vehicles. When the Mirai is here, you can expect direct comparisons with the Leaf and Volt.
'13 Leaf SL
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scottf200
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:27 am

This was well done.

2011 vs 2016 Chevy Volt - A Photo Comparison
By Dustin B. - My EV Perspective Sunday, 18 October 2015

When I test drove the new 2016 Volt, I had the advantage of being very familiar with the 1st generation. Since I understand many of you are not familiar with the car, I have put together a photo comparison which highlights the differences.


http://drwattsonev.blogspot.ca/2015/10/ ... n.html?m=1
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used' self | RIP '16 P90DL Sig self |
'18 Tesla Model 3 LR kid1 |
'11 Volt kid2 | '16 Volt for wife | '12 Volt kid1's spouse

GRA
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:30 pm

scottf200 wrote:This was well done.

2011 vs 2016 Chevy Volt - A Photo Comparison
By Dustin B. - My EV Perspective Sunday, 18 October 2015

When I test drove the new 2016 Volt, I had the advantage of being very familiar with the 1st generation. Since I understand many of you are not familiar with the car, I have put together a photo comparison which highlights the differences.


http://drwattsonev.blogspot.ca/2015/10/ ... n.html?m=1

Yes, very useful. I've got to say, having now seen another Gen 2 plus these photos, that while I prefer the interior ergonomics (by sight, haven't sat in it yet) and controls on the Gen 2, I prefer the looks of the gen 1, which is much more distinctive. Especially from the side, Gen 2 looks like a Civic, or pretty much any car with one or more 'Hyundai creases'. This styling trend is really getting out of hand now that everyone is using it - I find the Gen 1 Volt's lines, especially the sides, to be both cleaner and more aggressive looking. But the operational advantages of Gen 2 (AER, better CS mpg plus more power/better accel, Reg. gas, dash with real buttons/knobs, 70/30 split seat etc.) still wins out. I can always live with conventional or even bland styling if the car works better.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:40 pm

Styling is always a matter of personal preference. That said, Honda and company have done a lot of research in designing their cars to appeal to the mass market. While many of us early adopters like the distinctiveness to stand out from the crowd and make our statement, if we want these solutions to really succeed, we need the car companies to make them appealing to the masses. So yes, we should see more models resembling Hondas. But in the big scheme, that is a good thing.

Remember, hybrids began distinctive (Prius/Insight) but are now integrated into many mainstream models. The result is better market penetration for the solution, which should be the goal.
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knightmb
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:16 pm

Firetruck41 wrote:I certainly cross shopped the Volt and Leaf, and I have a feeling I am not totally unique in that regard. I was looking for lower operating costs than a "gas only" car. They both fit that bill. The 40mile range would almost make it a BEV in my use, so the gas engine maintenance would be much, much less than an ICE only vehicle. Maybe it is apples and oranges, but when you are shopping for some good fruit, they both deserve consideration.

In fact, if the Volt had 5 seats I might have bought one instead. I am glad I bought the Leaf, but a Volt or Energi may still be in my future as our "other" daily driver.

Does the Volt really have less maintenance cost with the gas component part of it? It really feels like taking a gas car and putting batteries into it and less like a electric car with gas backup power. Burning gas is the the least efficient way to charge batteries, so it seems more like the Volt would just be another high MPG gas vehicle that happens to have some batteries on board. I never understood why the Volt isn't simply an electric vehicle with gas for nothing but backup electricity, but from what I read about the hybrid system, the gas engine still drives the car, not just simply make electricity. Seems like added complication to what should be a really simple electric vehicle with a gas backup electric generator on board. Instead you drive +45 miles on battery then you are burning gas again. Folks like to complain about the Leaf range, seems counter-intuitive to drive a vehicle that is barely 2/3 of the range on battery and then basically back to burning gas?

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:04 am

finman100 wrote:I haven't quite wrapped my head around the Volt versus Leaf? Why would someone compare (or want) a gas engine hybrid commuter to an all-electric EV?

sure the "range extender" thing is one thing, but why even consider having another gas engine headache versus no gas or oil. ever. period.

wouldn't one compare ALL hybrid gas cars to other hybrid cars with a gas engine? Say

Volt or Prius?
Energi or Sonata plug-in (wait, is that a real one?)

Then compare yer no-gas-ever cars (excluding Tesla due to starting price):

Leaf or Focus EV
Spark or iMiEV
and so on...

To me it is apples and oranges. either you want to use gasoline sometimes or you don't ever have to use gasoline. different mindsets so not as comparable as everyone thinks?



short answer; some people are able to drive the Volt as a nearly pure EV. I know a guy who got a 2012 that only had 35 miles of range (40 on a good day...) and it was over 8 months before his first trip to the gas station
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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scottf200
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:21 pm

knightmb wrote:
Firetruck41 wrote:I certainly cross shopped the Volt and Leaf, and I have a feeling I am not totally unique in that regard. I was looking for lower operating costs than a "gas only" car. They both fit that bill. The 40mile range would almost make it a BEV in my use, so the gas engine maintenance would be much, much less than an ICE only vehicle. Maybe it is apples and oranges, but when you are shopping for some good fruit, they both deserve consideration.

In fact, if the Volt had 5 seats I might have bought one instead. I am glad I bought the Leaf, but a Volt or Energi may still be in my future as our "other" daily driver.

Does the Volt really have less maintenance cost with the gas component part of it? It really feels like taking a gas car and putting batteries into it and less like a electric car with gas backup power. Burning gas is the the least efficient way to charge batteries, so it seems more like the Volt would just be another high MPG gas vehicle that happens to have some batteries on board. I never understood why the Volt isn't simply an electric vehicle with gas for nothing but backup electricity, but from what I read about the hybrid system, the gas engine still drives the car, not just simply make electricity. Seems like added complication to what should be a really simple electric vehicle with a gas backup electric generator on board. Instead you drive +45 miles on battery then you are burning gas again. Folks like to complain about the Leaf range, seems counter-intuitive to drive a vehicle that is barely 2/3 of the range on battery and then basically back to burning gas?

Doesn't feel like you know the details of the Volt but just a high level.

I've done 1 oil change in my Volt in 3.5 years because I hit the 2 year mark and not because the Oil Life % indicator was in single digits. I'll change oil a 2nd time in Jan or Feb.

I drive in electric 80% of the time but don't hesitate to do road trips. My typically week uses NO gas and still regularly get over 40 miles on the battery (occasionally charge at home if I'm doing various things on a day).

I drive in (L)ow gear in my volt for 63,000 miles because it does the max regen there. Means I don't actually know when I will have to change my brakes.

Gen 1 & 2 are unique in all PHEVs and hence EREV since it uses the battery to drive the car until it drains. Even on hard throttle or up to 101 MPH speed limit. (exception is cold winter days to warm the battery and cabin more efficiently for a few minutes).

Gen 1 under *most* conditions only uses the electric power to drive the wheels. Sometimes uses the ICE to assist so they could get better mileage ... duh.

Gen 2 uses the ICE however it sees fit to get best mileage ... duh.
Last edited by scottf200 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:51 pm

DarthPuppy wrote:Styling is always a matter of personal preference. That said, Honda and company have done a lot of research in designing their cars to appeal to the mass market. While many of us early adopters like the distinctiveness to stand out from the crowd and make our statement, if we want these solutions to really succeed, we need the car companies to make them appealing to the masses. So yes, we should see more models resembling Hondas. But in the big scheme, that is a good thing.

Remember, hybrids began distinctive (Prius/Insight) but are now integrated into many mainstream models. The result is better market penetration for the solution, which should be the goal.

I've never felt the need to stand out as being that important as an owner, and certainly a 'normal' looking car is an advantage for the mass market. BTW, the 1st gen Prius was an exception as far as starting distinctive; it looked just like an Echo, a bottom of the bin econobox, and people were unlikely to give it a second glance. Toyota is sure going all-in on making the Mirai and 4th Gen Prius distinctive, but at least in my and many other people's eyes they've gone way overboard, taking the highly polarizing 'Juke' approach.

Conventional doesn't have to mean 'boring', as Tesla and Ford (Fusion) have shown; they're both nice albeit conventional looking big sedans (I know, the S is really a hatchback, but it's got a sedan's roof line). I've always thought that the Gen 1 Volt was pretty conventional looking too, but still managed to be distinctive. I just think the Gen 2 is more conventional and less distinctive, if you see what I mean. The Mini and 500 are conventional, nice looking two-box hatches that possess individual character; the Golf (any generation) is a conventional two-box, but almost characterless as far as looks go. Fortunately, it drives a lot more interestingly than it looks.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:57 pm

scottf200 wrote:<snip>
Gen 1 & 2 are unique in all PHEVs and hence EREV since it uses the battery to drive the car until it drains. Even on hard throttle or up to 101 MPH speed limit. (exception is cold winter days to warm the battery and cabin more efficiently for a few minutes).

Not unique anymore, unless the i3REx comes on under max accel while there's still sufficient charge.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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