sparky wrote: tattoogunman wrote: cwerdna wrote:
Re: Tesla's losses, indeed. I finally finished my spreadsheet computing their cumulative profits and losses, which I can now easily keep updating.
Since they've publicly reported P&Ls, they've accumulated ~$2.9 billion in net losses, including the most recent quarter, where they lost $330 million, attributable to common shareholders. If you go by some of the other figures on page 6 of http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ ... Letter.pdf
, one could argue it was $397 million in loss.
And this is why Tesla isn't even on my possibility list when it comes to EV cars. I am not convinced they are going to be around long term as a company with the way they are going. ...
I really wish you would consider it a possibility. I think every LEAF owner should.
Four years ago, I bought the best car I've ever owned, put 50k miles on it with multiple winter ski-trips, cross-country trips and everywhere else I used to drive my oil-burning SUV.
In 2011, I took a chance with Nissan and bought a LEAF.
In 2013, I took a chance with Tesla and bought a Model S. A car that is better today than when I first drove it home. A car built in my state, providing thousands of good jobs.
Still have both cars but Nissan won't get any more of my $. And their stock price ain't so great either.
Model 3 reserved. Model X queued up for 2018. Both can be paid for with TSLA stock I began buying in earnest when they could only make 100 cars / month and the Wall Street wisdom was they'd be bankrupt in 6 months.
I'm truly bummed the market disagrees with the doomsayers since I'd like another drop below $250 to buy a bit more before the Model 3 launch. Of course with this company we may indeed see a 10-15% drop for all kinds of reasons but the "losing $ on every car they sell" trope is just tired.
I think Tesla is fairly cash efficient. They invest in stuff that matters towards advancing their vision; e.g., Supercharging, Gigafactory and early rollout of Model 3.
Making a profit is not on their near-term horizon. Yes, they tend to keep pushing the envelope. God-speed.
Currently, I have no interest in a Model S. It's way too expensive, its reliability is questionable and it looks like it'll be a big money pit once it's out of warranty. The Model X is even worse and I definitely have no use for a vehicle that size and of that class.
Judging by how bleeding edge Tesla likes to run, I have put in no deposit $ and have no plans to put in any deposit $ towards a Model 3 until the vehicles seem to have at least decent to good reliability after being on the road for 6 months to a year. That sounds rather unlikely judging by how many years it took for Tesla to get its drive unit noise and failure problems under control (amongst other things). That means I'll be waiting a long time or (more likely) buying/leasing some other company's long-range EV. I will credit TSLA for pushing the envelope and spurring on competition though.
Take a look at their SEC filings like at http://ir.tesla.com/secfiling.cfm?filin ... IK=1318605
, yourself. Look at page 34 and a few after that. If you take their supposed gross profit and subtract out Selling, general and administrative (SG&A), you're left with almost nothing. That's before subtracting R&D and all their other expenses.
Per the filing
Cost of automotive revenue includes direct parts, material and labor costs, manufacturing overhead, including depreciation costs of tooling and machinery, shipping and logistic costs, vehicle connectivity costs, allocations of electricity and infrastructure costs related to our Supercharger network and reserves for estimated warranty expenses.
And from page 31
As of March 31, 2017 and December 31, 2016, the net book value of our Supercharger network was $214.9 million and $207.2 million, respectively, and as of March 31, 2017, our Supercharger network included 828 locations globally.
On page 37, it does say "In the three months ended March 31, 2017 we used cash of $276.6 million towards Gigafactory construction..." I'm not an accountant am not clear how this cash used figures into their P&L. From what I can tell, that $276.6 million spent towards Gigafactory does NOT show up on the table on page 5 and thus doesn't even count towards their loss, other than interest expense. Maybe someone can confirm this or tell me I'm wrong on this?