edatoakrun
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:20 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:If they're going to rely more on human labor than planned they're going to be further hurt by manufacturing in a place with such high cost of living. They would be better off with the factory in, say, South Carolina, like other automakers.

Manufacturing vehicles in Alameda County is an environmental as well as financial disaster.

If TSLA had't have been so short-sighted to buy GM's white elephant factory, the property could have been responsibly redeveloped into the high-density housing the region desperately needs.

What do you want to bet the average TSLA production worker this Summer (7/24 shifts!) will be commuting on average over 60 miles per day to the Fremont factory, driving an ICEV averaging less than 30 mpg?
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GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:40 pm

If Tesla employed the typical car salescritter: http://comicskingdom.com/carpe-diem/2018-04-21

Love the Volvo in the foreground (the artist is a Swede).
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Nubo
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:05 pm

edatoakrun wrote:[
Manufacturing vehicles in Alameda County is an environmental as well as financial disaster.

If TSLA had't have been so short-sighted to buy GM's white elephant factory, the property could have been responsibly redeveloped into the high-density housing the region desperately needs.


It's dead center in a large industrial zone, bounded by freeways and railroads. Not an appealing spot for residential, and you'd be wasting a perfectly good car factory. Assuming the cars are to be built somewhere, a factory that meets CA and BAAQMD standards, AND produces BEVs is about as good a tradeoff as you're going to get in this world.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:12 pm

Kanye likes it, that's what really matters.
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GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:21 pm

Nubo wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:[
Manufacturing vehicles in Alameda County is an environmental as well as financial disaster.

If TSLA had't have been so short-sighted to buy GM's white elephant factory, the property could have been responsibly redeveloped into the high-density housing the region desperately needs.


It's dead center in a large industrial zone, bounded by freeways and railroads. Not an appealing spot for residential, and you'd be wasting a perfectly good car factory. Assuming the cars are to be built somewhere, a factory that meets CA and BAAQMD standards, AND produces BEVs is about as good a tradeoff as you're going to get in this world.

+1, not to mention easy access to the Port of Oakland for shipping of parts in/cars out to Asia, and an existing plant that Tesla got for cheap (let's hear it for the second of the three 'Rs'). GM quit Nummi because of their bankruptcy, and Toyota didn't need it by themselves. That's not to say that some mixed-use residential development in the area (close by the recently-opened Warm Springs BART station) wouldn't be useful. I know some of the surrounding cities are intending or have already built mixed-use TODs around their BART stations, and Tesla certainly should consider running shuttles the 2 miles between the station and the factory, or else the company and BART should station some of the electric scooters that S.F. is in a snit about at the moment at both locations. Or (at some point when they're profitable) Tesla and the city could pay to build a pedestrian overpass or tunnel from the station to the other side of the tracks in the factory parking lot.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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dgpcolorado
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:22 pm

GRA wrote:
Nubo wrote:It's dead center in a large industrial zone, bounded by freeways and railroads. Not an appealing spot for residential, and you'd be wasting a perfectly good car factory. Assuming the cars are to be built somewhere, a factory that meets CA and BAAQMD standards, AND produces BEVs is about as good a tradeoff as you're going to get in this world.

+1, not to mention easy access to the Port of Oakland for shipping of parts in/cars out to Asia, and an existing plant that Tesla got for cheap (let's hear it for the second of the three 'Rs'). GM quit Nummi because of their bankruptcy, and Toyota didn't need it by themselves. That's not to say that some mixed-use residential development in the area (close by the recently-opened Warm Springs BART station) wouldn't be useful. I know some of the surrounding cities are intending or have already built mixed-use TODs around their BART stations, and Tesla certainly should consider running shuttles the 2 miles between the station and the factory, or else the company and BART should station some of the electric scooters that S.F. is in a snit about at the moment at both locations. Or (at some point when they're profitable) Tesla and the city could pay to build a pedestrian overpass or tunnel from the station to the other side of the tracks in the factory parking lot.
My main concern with the Fremont factory is the earthquake risk. One big quake — sure to happen someday — and that factory will be shut down for quite some time. If/when Tesla has other factories it won't matter so much but it is a risk for now.

As it happens, I toured the factory in the '60s when it was GM, long before NUMMI.
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mtndrew1
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:13 pm

Edit, wrong thread! :oops:
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GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:37 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:My main concern with the Fremont factory is the earthquake risk. One big quake — sure to happen someday — and that factory will be shut down for quite some time. If/when Tesla has other factories it won't matter so much but it is a risk for now.

As it happens, I toured the factory in the '60s when it was GM, long before NUMMI.

Depending on where a factory is located in the U.S., it could be quakes, floods, hurricanes or tornadoes (or meteors). To quote Roseanne Rosannadanna, "it's always something — if it ain't one thing, it's another!"
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Nubo
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:10 am

GRA wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:My main concern with the Fremont factory is the earthquake risk. One big quake — sure to happen someday — and that factory will be shut down for quite some time. If/when Tesla has other factories it won't matter so much but it is a risk for now.

As it happens, I toured the factory in the '60s when it was GM, long before NUMMI.

Depending on where a factory is located in the U.S., it could be quakes, floods, hurricanes or tornadoes (or meteors). To quote Roseanne Rosannadanna, "it's always something — if it ain't one thing, it's another!"

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edatoakrun
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:49 am

Nubo wrote:
GRA wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:My main concern with the Fremont factory is the earthquake risk. One big quake...

What you three seem to be missing is that the real disaster RE TSLA's Fremont factory was man (Musk) made, in choosing to locate a vehicle assembly factory so remote from housing where the production workers could actually afford to live.

This is a particularly severe problem for TSLA, given its inefficient labor-intensive production methods, and its low (non-union) pay levels.

Nightmare 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

...As high housing prices in and around the Bay Area’s major job centers force people to live farther and farther away from where they work, commuting times continue to skyrocket...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/04/25 ... tensifies/
Last edited by edatoakrun on Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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