GRA
Posts: 7252
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:55 pm

SageBrush wrote:
TomT wrote:I consider the Gen 2 Volt to be far better looking

I see a squashed frog wearing a yellow bow-tie with a goofy smile made from chrome dentures from the front of that car. <<shudder>>

And to top it off, the car would have cost me a lot more to purchase, offered less safety and functionality, polluted more and used more oil and electricity.
And sent money to one of the scummiest corporations in the country.

No. Hell no.

We can hopefully all agree that aesthetics are subjective. I agree with Tom that the Gen 2 Volt is a nice albeit quite conventional looking car, initially a bit hard for me to distinguish immediately from all the Civics and Elantras around here - now that I see them all the time (I think they've probably overtaken the Gen 1 now in frequency of sightings) I have no problem at all. As to which works best, pollution issues etc., those too are entirely a matter of individual requirements. We've done the basic calcs, which show that crossover point for the Prime to use less gas than the Volt 2 is around 160 miles between charges, but just to repeat:

25 miles AER + (53X) = 53 miles AER + (42X) [both mpg numbers assume EPA HWY, and assumes the Prime has a 'Hold' mode like the Volt's, even though it doesn't]

53X = 28 miles AER + (42X)

11X = 28 miles AER

X = 28/11 or 2.545

so 25 + 53(2.545) = 25 + 135 = 160

53 + 42(2.545) = 53 + 107 = 160
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:46 pm

GRA wrote:calc ...

Close enough for a single trip presuming EPA numbers but:

You are ignoring higher electric consumption per mile in the Volt
Your are ignoring higher tailpipe emissions in the Volt
You are ignoring the distribution of trip lengths
For reasons I don't fully understand, my Prime on-road fuel economy well exceeds EPA. Anecdotal for sure, I use about 0.75 G and 6.3 kWh (from the wall) for a 90 mile work commute. By EPA a Volt would use ~ 18 kWh and 0.88 G.

Then not to be forgotten is the much superior safety package of the Prime, and the thousands of dollars difference in car price.

I agree that looks are subjective, but since Tom thought it important to volunteer his opinion of the Prime I figured he would want my view of the Volt. And of course nothing positive can be said about GM except perhaps it is as miserable as VW
Last edited by SageBrush on Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6810
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:01 pm

GM still has a real union.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GRA
Posts: 7252
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:GM still has a real union.

As does VW. I long ago stopped expecting ethics to weigh heavily (if at all) in any corporation's decisions, as they are legally required to act in what they believe to be the best interests of their stockholders, and so trying to pick one out as ethically better than the others is something I rarely bother with - their management has pretty much all behaved as morally repugnant, greedy bastards at one time or another. It's when they combine stupidity with ethical failure that I take most notice, as with Nissan and their actions towards early adopters.

VW and GM both acted in morally reprehensible ways, and both nearly got away with it. While it's probable that ultimate cost to them is greater than if they'd taken the ethical action they should have at the time, I suspect the balance is closer than many of us would like to be the case.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7252
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:13 pm

A tepid review of the Prime via ABG, as is to be expected with anyone who values driving dynamics:
2017 Toyota Prius Prime Quick Spin | Homeliness and half-measures
There's part of the Prius Prime experience worth loving.
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/09/22/2017-toyota-prius-prime-quick-spin/

I'm not in love with the Toyota Prius Prime. But, for at least part of my time with it, I loved driving it.

The Prius Prime offers about 25 miles of all-electric driving if you pop it into EV mode and leave it there. Those are, by far, the best 25 miles you'll drive in the Prime all day (unless, of course, you're able to charge it up before going out again). Those 25 miles are quiet and smooth. In those 25 miles, good things happen when you press the accelerator. The task of modulating the pedal with the selector in "B" mode is satisfying. Even in Eco mode, the electric get-up when accelerating from a stop is the sort of feel that a classical soundtrack in allegro accompanies nicely.

When I ran out of juice, though, I was ready to be done. The buzzing of the engine is a stark contrast to the serenity of electric driving. It isn't slower, but the Prius Prime definitely feels slower as its struggling to gain speed becomes audible. . . .

There are definitely things I like about the Prius Prime, and I've considered switching to a plug-in hybrid for my next vehicle. Using the Prime in Hybrid mode, though, has me thinking I'd be happier to go fully electric. Either way, there is a sizable list of cars with and without gasoline engines that I'd rather live with than this one. . . .

He also mentioned the hard plastics, looks etc. As noted previously it's still a Prius, with all that entails both good and bad.

In an apparent attempt to make the car somewhat less 'Priusy', via plugincars.com:
Toyota’s New GR Performance Lineup Includes Sportier Version of Prius Prime Plug-in Hybrid
http://plugincars.com/toyota%E2%80%99s-new-gr-lineup-includes-sportier-version-prius-prime-plug-hybrid-133236.html

Toyota announced today that the design of the Prius Prime will add some excitement when the company introduces a high-performance version of the plug-in hybrid in Japan. While Toyota has not yet confirmed plans to launch GR option packages in the US market, the Prius Prime is the only model in the new performance GR sub-brand that is currently sold in the US. In Japan, the more stylish version of the plug-in hybrid, which offers 25 miles of all-electric range, will be called the Prius PHV GR Sport.

The new packages offer a sportier grille design, white painted brake calipers, special badging, and racing seats. The Prius GR Sport adds specially tuned suspension and a chassis stiffening brace for improved handling. The car’s interior also features a special tachometer, aluminum pedals, a Smoke Black trimmed shift knob, and a small diameter steering wheel.

The main target of the new brand is younger customers, according to Gazoo Racing President Shigeki Tomoyama. “What constitutes the heart of the Gazoo brand is a desire for challenges and to make innovations by breaking through barriers,” he said earlier this year.

Some industry observers believe that the new sub-brand, which emphasizes performance, creates a conflict with the company’s long-time focus on advanced eco-friendly cars powered by batteries and hydrogen fuel cells. However, by adding a sporty option for the Prius Prime plug-in hybrid, the company is instead signaling how it intends to expand the appeal of cars that are more efficient. . . .

While I applaud the intent, old sayings about "applying lipstick to a pig" and "If I were you, I wouldn't start from here" come to mind. It's sort of like trying to make an exciting version of the iMiEV: it may be possible, but it'd be better to use an entirely different basic platform. You can add a turbo to the Kia Soul and few will :roll: , but I suspect the same may not be true of the Prime. Short of replacing the ICE with something more powerful and quieter, and dumping the CVT for a multi-speed auto trans with paddle shifters, it's still going to be and look like a Prius.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”