GRA
Posts: 7236
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:55 pm

SageBrush wrote:
TomT wrote:I consider the Gen 2 Volt to be far better looking

I see a squashed frog wearing a yellow bow-tie with a goofy smile made from chrome dentures from the front of that car. <<shudder>>

And to top it off, the car would have cost me a lot more to purchase, offered less safety and functionality, polluted more and used more oil and electricity.
And sent money to one of the scummiest corporations in the country.

No. Hell no.

We can hopefully all agree that aesthetics are subjective. I agree with Tom that the Gen 2 Volt is a nice albeit quite conventional looking car, initially a bit hard for me to distinguish immediately from all the Civics and Elantras around here - now that I see them all the time (I think they've probably overtaken the Gen 1 now in frequency of sightings) I have no problem at all. As to which works best, pollution issues etc., those too are entirely a matter of individual requirements. We've done the basic calcs, which show that crossover point for the Prime to use less gas than the Volt 2 is around 160 miles between charges, but just to repeat:

25 miles AER + (53X) = 53 miles AER + (42X) [both mpg numbers assume EPA HWY, and assumes the Prime has a 'Hold' mode like the Volt's, even though it doesn't]

53X = 28 miles AER + (42X)

11X = 28 miles AER

X = 28/11 or 2.545

so 25 + 53(2.545) = 25 + 135 = 160

53 + 42(2.545) = 53 + 107 = 160
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:46 pm

GRA wrote:calc ...

Close enough for a single trip presuming EPA numbers but:

You are ignoring higher electric consumption per mile in the Volt
Your are ignoring higher tailpipe emissions in the Volt
You are ignoring the distribution of trip lengths
For reasons I don't fully understand, my Prime on-road fuel economy well exceeds EPA. Anecdotal for sure, I use about 0.75 G and 6.3 kWh (from the wall) for a 90 mile work commute. By EPA a Volt would use ~ 18 kWh and 0.88 G.

Then not to be forgotten is the much superior safety package of the Prime, and the thousands of dollars difference in car price.

I agree that looks are subjective, but since Tom thought it important to volunteer his opinion of the Prime I figured he would want my view of the Volt. And of course nothing positive can be said about GM except perhaps it is as miserable as VW
Last edited by SageBrush on Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6779
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:01 pm

GM still has a real union.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GRA
Posts: 7236
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:GM still has a real union.

As does VW. I long ago stopped expecting ethics to weigh heavily (if at all) in any corporation's decisions, as they are legally required to act in what they believe to be the best interests of their stockholders, and so trying to pick one out as ethically better than the others is something I rarely bother with - they're management has pretty much all behaved as morally repugnant, greedy bastards at one time or another. It's when they combine stupidity with ethical failure that I take most notice, as with Nissan and their actions towards early adopters.

VW and GM both acted in morally reprehensible ways, and both nearly got away with it. While it's probable that ultimate cost to them is greater than if they'd taken the ethical action they should have at the time, I suspect the balance is closer than many of us would like to be the case.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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