GetOffYourGas
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:41 pm

Most public charge points here are $0.49/kWh. That's the same for the 3.3kW Prius Prime and the 7.2kW eGolf. For the Prius, it is far more expensive than gas. That's true for all PHEVs on the market. So unless someone is trying to make a statement (or simply doesn't know better), noone would charge any PHEV in public.
~Brian

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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:26 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:Most public charge points here are $0.49/kWh. That's the same for the 3.3kW Prius Prime and the 7.2kW eGolf. For the Prius, it is far more expensive than gas. That's true for all PHEVs on the market. So unless someone is trying to make a statement (or simply doesn't know better), noone would charge any PHEV in public.


In your location. You seem unconcerned by what happens in the rest of the country, so I'll stop trying to explain it. Hopefully there will be another round of charging station buildups for the Bolt and the point will be moot.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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RegGuheert
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:48 pm

SageBrush wrote:Third, Prius reliability and Toyota Customer Support are outstanding. Chevrolet/GM are .... well documented.
Yes, they are: The Chevy Volt topped the charts for customer satisfaction for multiple years. In other words, the Chevy Volt beat the Toyota Prius.

I do not own a Chevy Volt, but many on this forum own one or more of them. I have read very few negative comments from Volt owners.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
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Zythryn
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:11 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Third, Prius reliability and Toyota Customer Support are outstanding. Chevrolet/GM are .... well documented.
Yes, they are: The Chevy Volt topped the charts for customer satisfaction for multiple years. In other words, the Chevy Volt beat the Toyota Prius.

I do not own a Chevy Volt, but many on this forum own one or more of them. I have read very few negative comments from Volt owners.


That is over four years old.
However, the Volt is still very high on the list. It is #3 at 90%, just behind the Covette at #2 and the Model S at #1.
While the Volt scores very high, GM as a whole, especially its dealers, do not.

So I would agree that GM reliability and customer support are lacking in general.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt & Leaf
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RegGuheert
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:39 pm

Zythryn wrote:That is over four years old.
However, the Volt is still very high on the list. It is #3 at 90%, just behind the Covette at #2 and the Model S at #1.
While the Volt scores very high, GM as a whole, especially its dealers, do not.

So I would agree that GM reliability and customer support are lacking in general.
And last year it was #2 behind the Model S. In other words, the Chevy Volt has beaten EVERY Toyota Priusin customer satisfaction EVERY year that it has been on the market. And the PiP is not even close in this regard (69% versus 85% for the Volt last year).

Again, to say that someone should choose a Toyota Prius over a Chevy Volt because "Prius reliability and Toyota Customer Support are outstanding" is nonsense and not based on the facts of the two cars' reputations.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 3K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
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jjeff
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:27 pm

RegGuheert wrote:I cannot see the appeal of the Prius Prime. What can you say about it?

- It goes almost half as far as the Volt 2 on batteries.
- It has 80% as many seats as the Volt 2.
- It's twice as ugly as the Volt 2.
- If you stare at its rear long enough, you see Optimus Prime. :D

It appears it has three things going for it:
- It costs 90% as much as the Volt 2.
- It goes 29% farther on a gallon of gas than the Volt 2.
- It has 87% more cargo volume than the Volt 2.

OK, perhaps that last one would win over some owners. Still, I think most will have difficulty choosing the Prius Prime over the Chevy Volt.

If these do become popular, expect to find Prius Primes clogging EVSEs everywhere. :evil:

-For me the 4 passenger thing is kind of a deal breaker, wish it wasn't but it was one of the things that turned me off of the original gen1 Volt, didn't Toyota learn anything from Chevrolet's mistake :?
-I also find the Prime quite ugly, although I thought the same thing of our '07 Prius and it's kind of grown on me, I didn't like the later angular Prius's either.
-I too am not too excited by the minuscule range, on the right track from the original PiP which was a total joke, but what would it have cost Toyota to put in at least a 16kwh battery....again learn from Chevy's mistake....
-Going 29% further on a gallon of gas is a very important thing to me, and another one of the reasons I didn't purchase the Volt. I'm used to our Prius's 50mpg on the road and wouldn't want to get any worse than that, in that respect I like the Prime.
-More cargo/passenger room, probably the #1 reason I didn't get the Volt, too damn cramped, cramped in the front, cramped in the rear, cramped in cargo area, you get my drift, the Volt was just too damn cramped for my tastes, and I used to drive a Chevy(Geo Metro) which was small on the outside and large on the inside, and got 50mpg!

Even with it's relatively small battery the Prime might have been a somewhat decent option for a replacement for our 10 year old Prius, good for short EV trips and 50mpg going to FL but the 4 seat thing is a deal breaker, I'd have probably got over it's downright ugly looks too ;)

And I agree about vehicles like this plugging up public EVSEs, at least in my area. The only ones I use are free and generally open or 1/2 in use. When I charge my Leaf I have no other option to get around, someone with a Prime or even Volt does have another option, albeit one that would cost some money. True I could be just topping off and might not need the charge to get home but other times I need the charge to continue my trip and wouldn't be all too happy not being able to charge just because someone else doesn't want to burn his gas. I have no issues with this if EVSEs are open, I'm just talking about when all are full and a EV can't charge because PHEVs are using the EVSEs.
Of course I understand a Prime might pull in and there are open EVSEs and EV comes later taking the last EVSE, then another EV comes in and there are no open EVSEs, I don't know I guess there is no perfect way...
Last edited by jjeff on Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zythryn
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:31 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
Zythryn wrote:That is over four years old.
However, the Volt is still very high on the list. It is #3 at 90%, just behind the Covette at #2 and the Model S at #1.
While the Volt scores very high, GM as a whole, especially its dealers, do not.

So I would agree that GM reliability and customer support are lacking in general.
And last year it was #2 behind the Model S. In other words, the Chevy Volt has beaten EVERY Toyota Priusin customer satisfaction EVERY year that it has been on the market. And the PiP is not even close in this regard (69% versus 85% for the Volt last year).

Again, to say that someone should choose a Toyota Prius over a Chevy Volt because "Prius reliability and Toyota Customer Support are outstanding" is nonsense and not based on the facts of the two cars' reputations.


I agree with the bolded part.
But that isn't what was claimed.
The claim was, based on reliability of the companies, not customer satisfaction of the specific models.

GM had an awful reliability rating in the 90s and early 2000s. They are working on that, and doing pretty well, especially with the Volt.
But they have a ways to go when it comes to repairing their reliability rep.

And frankly, I find Toyota dealers far better than Chevy dealers. If I were to buy a car from a dealer (which I doubt) I would pick a Toyota dealer over a GM dealer.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt & Leaf
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GetOffYourGas
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:33 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Most public charge points here are $0.49/kWh. That's the same for the 3.3kW Prius Prime and the 7.2kW eGolf. For the Prius, it is far more expensive than gas. That's true for all PHEVs on the market. So unless someone is trying to make a statement (or simply doesn't know better), noone would charge any PHEV in public.


In your location. You seem unconcerned by what happens in the rest of the country, so I'll stop trying to explain it. Hopefully there will be another round of charging station buildups for the Bolt and the point will be moot.


I am confused by your post.

Yes, I am talking about my location. That's why I said "here". You were talking about yours. I'm not sure why I "seem unconcerned by what happens in the rest of the country" or how you have been "trying to explain it". I was simply sharing one data point. No more. no less.

If Prius Primes utilize the public charge points properly, and in doing offset that much gas usage, I count that as a good thing. If, on the other hand, they hog the stations long after they are done charging, then that is a bad thing and something should be done about it.

Bottom line - free public charging should never be counted on. It is a nice perk, and that's about it. If you really want charging you can count on, you should be ready to pay for it.

As for the Bolt, I am with you 100%. I really hope that it sells well and creates a solid market for a robust/reliable public charging network.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:01 pm

If you were just writing that no one would charge a PHEV via pubic charging in Syracuse, in response to a post complaining that if the Prime became a popular car "everywhere" they would clog up public charging stations, then I'm the one who is confused, I guess. It doesn't matter.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
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Re: 2017 Prius Prime PHEV

Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:33 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Again, to say that someone should choose a Toyota Prius over a Chevy Volt because "Prius reliability and Toyota Customer Support are outstanding" is nonsense and not based on the facts of the two cars' reputations.
What part of "Prius reliability and Toyota Customer support are outstanding" are you disagreeing about ?

If you want to believe that GM and its dealership network match Toyota in customer support, well pardon me while I have a very hearty laugh at your expense.

Lastly, while I was not talking only about Volt reliability because I don't know details, the 2nd generation Volt has this going on
The Chevrolet Volt is “no longer recommended” as it is on a list of vehicles with “declining reliability.”
...
The kicker is “First-year reliability of the redesign has been well-below average,” says CR.
http://www.hybridcars.com/consumer-reports-names-tesla-volt-and-prius-among-winners-and-losers/

So let me connect the dots for you:

Car reliability:
Prime: Expected to be exemplary
Volt: At best, uncertain

Customer Support:
Toyota: Fantastic
GM: Lawyer up!

----
Unrelated to my prior statement, Toyota also quietly is a leader in green manufacturing while GM ... is a cesspool and a blight on society.
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