GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:23 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:I wonder why you have posted an article about a hybrid bus which does not contain a traction battery in a thread entitled "Battery-electric bus discussion".

Because this would seem to be a potentially good use for a BEV bus, and I was wondering why they chose to go another way, so thought I'd post it and see if anyone had more info. The reasons why BEV buses aren't chosen when it seems they might be suitable are of interest to me, just as the reasons why BEV buses ARE chosen are of interest. I want to see the factors driving the decision, and when/how much they move as the tech improves.


I suspect that issue has probably more to do with government grants or university studies etc. then bona fide best choices.

I've had a look at the road profile on the park website, and it's very steep leading out of the visitor center, plus the temps are often cool to cold. I'm having some difficulty matching the 14-mile run with shuttle buses. This appears to be a new short-range service that stops more than 3 miles short of the normal shortest turn-around. See https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/maps.htm
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:48 am

GRA wrote:Because this would seem to be a potentially good use for a BEV bus, and I was wondering why they chose to go another way, so thought I'd post it and see if anyone had more info.
By that logic, any time any organization purchases a bus which is not an H2 FCV, should I create a post about it in that thread and say "Gee, I wonder why they didn't purchase an H2 FCV?" :roll:

(In case anyone is sarcasm-challenged, the answer clearly is "No!")
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:53 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:Because this would seem to be a potentially good use for a BEV bus, and I was wondering why they chose to go another way, so thought I'd post it and see if anyone had more info.
By that logic, any time any organization purchases a bus which is not an H2 FCV, should I create a post about it in that thread and say "Gee, I wonder why they didn't purchase an H2 FCV?" :roll:

(In case anyone is sarcasm-challenged, the answer clearly is "No!")

If it's relevant and the answer's non-obvious, why wouldn't you? After all, the Park Service would love to use only ZEV buses, so when they don't find them suitable the reasons are of interest (to me, at least). The reason why a commercial entity doesn't choose an FCEV bus is usually obvious; cost compared to an ICE. However, since you started this thread, if you'd prefer I'll start another dealing only with non-BEV buses as well as all ZEV trucks. Let me know.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:15 pm

GRA wrote:However, since you started this thread, if you'd prefer I'll start another dealing only with non-BEV buses as well as all ZEV trucks. Let me know.
I started this thread because I found we were talking about BEV buses in the H2 FCV thread. So, yeah, if you don't mind, let's please keep them separate.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:18 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:However, since you started this thread, if you'd prefer I'll start another dealing only with non-BEV buses as well as all ZEV trucks. Let me know.
I started this thread because I found we were talking about BEV buses in the H2 FCV thread. So, yeah, if you don't mind, let's please keep them separate.

Done: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22441
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:59 pm

Via IEVS:
First Hong Kong Hotel Electrifies Their Shuttle Fleet To Help The Environment
http://insideevs.com/first-hong-kong-ho ... vironment/

. . .The e-shuttle has a capacity for 14 passengers, and runs on a circular route around the Kowloon peninsula in the Tsim Sha Tsui area for guest to hop on and off around all the tourist attractions and shopping malls. . . .

The e-shuttle is built by a Chinese manufacturer named “WUZHOULONG MOTORS”. The power management system and 3 phase 45kW AC motor was also produced by Chinese firms. The air cooled battery is supplied by Samsung with a capacity of 101.6kWh.

According to the hotel staff each round trip within the Tsim Sha Tsui is about 6km/4 miles (flat roads) and that the maximum range is about 10 trips, but they usually recharge when SOC (state of charge) reaches about 30%.

The manufacturer has other models with extended ranges and power suitable for driving on uphill roads; which are quite common on the Hong Kong island. Over the last few months of operation, the staff noted the average electricity cost per month is under $500 (USD) to operate the two e-shuttle versus, as opposed to the ~$2,000 per month needed to operate their two old diesel based shuttles, running on the same route.

For guest arriving from or leaving the airport (which is about a 70km/45 mile round trip ride), the hotel uses its BMW i3 and Tesla Model S fleet to serve those needs. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:00 pm

Via IEVS:
Swedish ElectriCity E-Bus Project Carried 1.2 Million Passengers In First Year
http://insideevs.com/swedish-electricit ... irst-year/

Volvo celebrated the first anniversary of the Gothenburg’s electric bus service this Summer – ElectriCity, which was launched in June of 2015. The three all-electric buses in service on route 55 between Chalmers and Lindholmen surpassed expectations of the provider, and apparently received mostly positive feedback. . . .

“According to Public Transport Authority Västtrafik, passengers are generally very satisfied with the service. The fact that the buses run on renewable electricity is regarded favourably, and the bus stops at Chalmersplatsen and Teknikgatan are rated very highly. . . and no less than 93 per cent feel that the low on-board noise level is a great benefit. Measurements carried out by Volvo confirm these perceptions and show considerable differences in noise between diesel and electric power, both inside and outside the buses, particularly at low speeds.

Surveys carried out by bus operator Keolis show that the bus drivers also feel the low noise level is one of the biggest advantages of electric power, both because it contributes to a better working environment and because it is appreciated by the passengers. The fact that the buses are equipped with zone management which automatically limits speed in certain areas is regarded as positive and boosts safety.

Route 55 is not only Gothenburg’s first route serviced by electric buses, it is above all an arena for showcasing the latest technologies and for developing emerging solutions. That is why the programme is being studied very thoroughly. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:24 pm

Via GCC:
Proterra launches new Catalyst E2 series electric bus with nominal range of up to 350 miles
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/09 ... terra.html

At the American Public Transit Association (APTA) Annual Meeting, Proterra unveiled the newest addition to its fleet of electric buses: the Catalyst E2 series, named for its Efficient Energy (E2) storage capacity of 440 - 660 kWh. Last month, an E2 series vehicle achieved a new milestone at Michelin’s Laurens Proving Grounds where it logged more than 600 miles (966 km) on a single charge under test conditions.

Its nominal range of 194 - 350 miles means the Catalyst E2 series is capable of serving the full daily mileage needs of nearly every US. mass transit route on a single charge and offers the transit industry the first direct replacement for fossil-fueled transit vehicles. . . .

Assuming that the real-world range lives up to its billing and that life-cycle costs are lower than FCEVs, this would eliminate any need to use FCEV buses for local bus routes almost everywhere, restricting them to over-the-road usage. Or perhaps the FCEV range-extender will be the way to go. Definitely a development to watch closely.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:14 pm

China EV bus sales:

------------- 2010 -- 2011 -- 2012 ---- 2013 --- 2014 --- 2015
BEV ------- 523 --- 1136 -- 1904 -----1672 - 12760 - -94260
PHEV ------------------------------------- -2637 - 16500 --- 23051
HEV --------------------------- 3804 ---- 2825 --- 5825 ---- 6111

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:00 pm

Via GCC:
Navigant Research forecasts battery-electric to be leading type of electric powertrain for buses through 2026
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/10 ... igant.html

Also posted in the Non BEV-bus thread, as it deals with HEV, PHEV and FCEV buses as well.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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