GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri May 12, 2017 4:07 pm

Via GCC:
Proterra launches new diagnostic tool and cold weather package for improved operational efficiency of battery-electric buses
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/05 ... terra.html

. . . A simple dashboard displays the vehicle’s functional layout, enabling users to monitor operation levels, see faults and resolve many issues directly through the interface without physically removing bus panels. A virtual mechanic, the Diagnostic Tool provides access to most of the vehicle’s operational features, including monitoring of the overhead charging system. . . .

To ensure safe and comfortable operation in winter conditions, the company is also introducing the Proterra Cold Weather Package . . . since the bus is electric and has no combustion engine, there is no excess heat to reuse within the vehicle. The Cold Weather Package addresses this issue with two different configurations, depending on the severity of climate.

    For regions with occasional snow and below-freezing temperatures, the Standard Cold Weather Package offers a front door and ADA ramp diffuser to remove ice and minimize slipping, heated mirrors to ensure better visibility, and a heated charge blade and scoop on the roof of the bus for consistent charging all winter.

    In areas with more extreme winter weather, such as northern or mountain climate zones, the Extreme Cold Weather Package offers the features of the Standard Package, with additional auxiliary heat for sub-zero conditions to keep riders and drivers comfortable. In addition, a heated rear exit floor prevents ice buildup. Optional features, including integrated chains and belly pans, add an extra layer of safety and operational reliability.


Also GCC:
Motiv Power Systems to power 13 electric school buses in California pilot
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/05 ... tivps.html

. . . A $7.5-million grant from the California Air Resources Board (CARB) will support the building of 13 battery-electric school buses as part of the Sacramento Regional Zero-Emission School Bus Deployment Project. The 13 buses will go to Elk Grove Unified School District and Twin Rivers Unified School District. . . .

The new all-electric buses will be powered by Motiv’s all-electric powertrains . . . The buses, Trans Tech’s all-electric eSeries built on the Ford E450 chassis, will be distributed by First Priority GreenFleet. Motiv’s powertrain replaces the diesel or gasoline engine on a standard chassis. . . .

The electric school buses support a battery capacity of 85 or 106 kWh, with a range of 68 to 85 miles. The 150 kW electric motor delivers 1,200 N·m of torque (885 lb-ft). Top speed for the bus is 60 mph. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:35 pm

Via GCC:
$9.5M from California Climate Investments will support purchase of 10 battery-electric buses and solar charging stations
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/06 ... 1-arb.html

California will award $9.5 million to bring 10 battery-electric buses and supportive infrastructure to serve disadvantaged communities in the south San Joaquin Valley city of Porterville. In addition to the buses, the project will include installation of charging stations and solar panels. Funding is from the California Climate Investments (CCI), the state’s cap-and-trade program.

Manufactured by GreenPower Motor Company and expected to arrive by early 2018, the ten new GreenPower EV350 40-foot electric transit buses and the charging infrastructure will service all nine of the Porterville Transit routes in the disadvantaged communities of Porterville, East Porterville, Strathmore and the Tule River Indian Reservation. . . .

In addition to the grant amount, the project partners— GreenPower, San Joaquin Valley Air Quality Management District, and Southern California Edison—will contribute more than $7 million in a combination of cash and in-kind matching funds. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:23 pm

All via GCC:
Shenzhen Wuzhoulong Motors unveils 12m electric bus for China market; UQM PowerPhase DT drive system
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/06 ... 3-uqm.html

Shenzhen Wuzhoulong Motors, a new energy bus manufacturer, recently unveiled an electric 12-meter bus for the China market, powered by the UQM electric drive system. Wuzhoulong Motors announced this bus at the Shenzhen International Electric Tradeshow as the Wuzhoulong F2 Felicity 12-meter fast charge high performance bus.

The bus uses the UQM PowerPhase DT HD250 propulsion system with the UQM 2-speed Eaton transmission. According to Wuzhoulong Motors, with peak power of 250 kW and peak torque of 3050 N·m, this bus saves 32% in volume and 53% in weight when compared with the leading bus E-drive competitors in the marketplace. In addition to the UQM electric propulsion system, the Wuzhoulong bus adopts a lightweight design and aluminum body to realize higher EV performance. . . .


Park City Transit deploying six Proterra electric buses; battery-lease financing model
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/06 ... terra.html

Park City Transit has deployed Utah’s first zero-emission, battery-electric mass transit fleet, which will include six Proterra Catalyst FC+ buses.

Selected to serve the region’s renowned ski resort community, the Proterra fleet supports Park City’s and Summit County’s transition toward renewable energy and the reduction of its overall carbon footprint. With one of the nation’s most ambitious climate targets, Park City is laying a path for a net-zero carbon footprint for its municipal operations by 2022 and a Summit County area-wide net-zero carbon footprint by 2032 by implementing Proterra’s proven transit technology. . . .

Nicknamed the “Electric Xpress,” the free transit service will provide clean, quiet, and efficient transportation to residents and tourists throughout several neighborhoods, including Park City Resort, Canyons Village, Silver Springs, Silver Lake Village, Empire Pass and Park Meadows. . . .

Proterra is responsible for the performance of the batteries through the life of the lease, removing operator risk. . . .

I think battery leasing is the way to go, at least until customers have far more experience with the full life cycle of their batteries and have real-world cost data.

Volvo Buses receives order for 13 electric buses from Malmö; largest single order to date
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/06/20170623-v.html

. . . The Volvo 7900 Electric bus uses about 80% less energy than corresponding diesel buses and will be powered by green electricity to minimize environmental and climate impact. The bus batteries will be fast-charged at the route’s end stops, a process that takes between three and six minutes. The bus charges via the open interface OppCharge (opportunity charging), which follows the ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers Association) recommendations. The buses will run on route 7 in the city of Malmö, a distance of 14.7 km (9.1 miles). . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:40 pm

I was at the opening ceremony today for the electric express service in Park City. The Proterra Catalyst is a beautiful machine, smooth and quiet as you'd expect. Interestingly, near as I could tell the battery pack they opted for is only about 100kwh. Comparable to a Tesla. Of course the range is only about 50 miles, but the route is only 7 miles each way, so not much range anxiety there.

Officials were tight lipped about the per unit cost but sounded like it was in the 750k range compared to a little under 500k for a conventional 40 footer. They expect to more than make back the difference in operating costs.

http://www.parkrecord.com/news/summit-c ... oad-224-2/
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:59 pm

Starting to get some useful comparison service and cost data. Via GCC:
NREL report on electric bus demo at Foothill Transit finds Proterra fuel economy >8x higher than CNG on same line
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/07 ... -nrel.html

. . . This latest report provides data and analysis on 12 Proterra BEBs and eight CNG baseline buses from August 2015 through December 2016. . . .

Foothill Transit paid an average of $0.17/kWh for electricity for the BEBs and $0.96/gge for CNG. An apples-to-apples comparison of fuel cost—i.e., the cost for the CNG buses and the Proterra electric buses on the same route—found the average per mile cost for the electric buses was $0.41 per mile, including $0.04 per mile reflecting the expected energy loss of approximately 10% during charging. The estimated cost for the CNG buses on the same route was $0.50 per mile. . . .

The overall bus miles between roadcalls (MBRC) for the electric fleet decreased from more than 9,000 during the period of the first report to just over 6,000.This is higher than the target of 4,000 MBRC—but much lower than that of the CNG buses, which achieved more than 29,000 MBRC.

NREL found that the propulsion system-related MBRC was 16,405 for the BEBs compared to 56,710 for the CNG buses. However, the energy storage system (ESS)-related MBRC for the BEBs continues to climb, now surpassing 300,000.

After removing accident- and warranty-related items for both fleets, the average per-mile maintenance cost for the data period was $0.21/mi for the BEBs and $0.22/mi for the CNG buses—including scheduled and unscheduled maintenance. Although the totals are very similar, the BEBs have lower scheduled maintenance costs ($0.07/mi) than the CNG buses ($0.11/mi). . . .

The on-route fast chargers have operated reliably with minimal issues; Foothill Transit’s combined BEB fleet (17 buses) has been charged more than 119,000 times since the fast chargers were installed. Availability of the two charging heads was 98% and 99%. Proterra reports that the high voltage batteries are showing little to no signs of capacity degradation to date, and current estimates show they may last for up to 12 years.*

Foothill Transit and Proterra reported several key lessons learning since the beginning of the project:

    Short-range, on-route-charged buses are inflexible and cannot be deployed at other service routes that do not connect to an on-route charging location.

    Transit agencies bringing in electric buses should review potential routes and consider the ones that best fit how BEBs operate based on driving range, duty cycle, and charging opportunities.

    Transit agencies should adjust route schedules to accommodate BEB charging time; this is part of the transition from conventional technology buses to electric buses. An agency may need to add deadhead miles prior to the start of the route depending on the location of the in-route charging station and availability of an in-depot charger.

    The higher use of air conditioning lowers the effective range in hotter months; schedules need to be adjusted.

    Charger availability is important for successful deployment. Foothill Transit installed two charger heads at its charging station to avoid downtime for charger unavailability. . . .

*Proterra can estimate how long the batteries may last all they want ([Note: They use LTO chemistry, which should be durable], but how long are the battery capacities warrantied for (the batteries have a 6-year warranty, but that's presumably for materials and failure), and what's the replacement cost?

Direct link to NREL report, which is well worth the read:
Foothill Transit Battery Electric
Bus Demonstration Results:
Second Report
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy17osti/67698.pdf
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:28 pm

Via GCC:
Irizar lands contracts for 15 12m electric buses in Madrid, 4 18m artic electric buses in Barcelona
* http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/07 ... rizar.html

*"arctic" should read "articulated".

. . . Irizar electric buses have been operating in various European countries since 2014. In 2014, Irizar became the first European manufacturer in the sector to deliver two 100% electric vehicles to Barcelona and delivered the first unit to San Sebastian.

In 2015, the first units were delivered to London, Marseille and the Barcelona metropolitan area (Mohn, SA) and tests were carried out in various European cities.

In 2016, 6 units were delivered to Marseille for France’s first fully electric line along with other units to San Sebastián and Bilbao. In the same year, the first articulated bus unit was manufactured after spending 6 months undergoing durability testing at Idiada (Tarragona).

In 2017, 26 new 12-meter long buses will be delivered. At the end of this year, work will begin to manufacture 22 articulated buses; the four units recently purchased by Barcelona (TMB) and the 18 units purchased by the Basque Coast-Adour Agglomeration.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:52 pm

Via IEVS:
Los Angeles Metro Authority To Buy 95 Electric Buses From BYD, New Flyer
http://insideevs.com/los-angeles-metro- ... new-flyer/

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority in Los Angeles has placed two orders, for a total of 95 electric buses, in the first phase of switching its fleet to zero emissions by 2030. Today, Los Angeles Metro has the second largest bus fleet in the country – about 2,200 vehicles, which means that these new EVs will be still under 5% of total fleet. As there is no more than 100 battery-electric buses operating in California today, the new order will double the state EV bus fleet. . . .

The first order is for 60 40-foot BYD electric buses by 2021, while the second is for 35 60-foot articulated New Flyer electric buses by 2020.

    “To address technology questions and concerns about how far the vehicles can travel, Metro’s first electric buses will only run along the Orange Line busway in the San Fernando Valley and in the 29-mile Silver Line carpool lane along the Harbor and San Bernardino freeways. Both routes will have chargers where buses can stop if their batteries run low. . . .”
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:30 pm

I just took a look at Proterra's Electric Bus Specifications and I see that they have options all the way up to 660(!) kWh. It seems clear that as time goes on, more and more missions are being covered by these battery-electric buses.

As GRA posted about above, these buses now travel over 300,000 miles between battery-related roadcalls. I have no doubt that failures related to the drive electronics will be handled as time goes on.

Cost, range, reliability and durability should all continue to improve as the technology progresses.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:27 am

An all-electric bus made by Yutong is now operating at the 5500-meter base camp of Mount Everest. Yutong is the world's largest supplier of EV buses and, I believe, the world's largest supplier of buses overall.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:42 am

Here's an interesting quote in MIT Technology Review regarding who pays for transit buses in the U.S.:
MIT Technology Review wrote:“Do you know the biggest industry that’s subsidized by the U.S. government? Transit bus,” said BYD’s vice president of the Americas, Micheal Austin, adding that 80 percent of all capital expenditures on U.S. bus transit are funded by the federal government.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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