GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue May 03, 2016 4:54 pm

Via GCC:
SunLine adds first electric buses to fleet; BYD
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/05 ... t-byd.html

SunLine Transit Agency, which serves more than 3.5 million passengers annually in the Coachella Valley* in California, has added its first all-electric buses, manufactured by BYD.

The 40-ft low-floor transit buses are equipped with BYD-designed and -built iron phosphate batteries, delivering 324 kWh of power that come with a 12 year warranty . . . The batteries can run for up to 155 miles of typical urban driving on the service routes with recharging requiring only four hours.

The buses seat 35 and have room for more than 60 standing passengers. The transit agency began testing the vehicle on service routes in January. . . .



*Since approximately the age of 8, every time I see or hear the words "Coachella Valley" I mentally add on "and the Carrot Festival therein?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOFNTfWsQrQ

"Bully for Bugs", one of my all-time favorites.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Fri May 06, 2016 6:41 pm

Sad day for the hydrogen dreamers... all this yummy government money, and almost ALL of it goes to EVs... at least 56 EV buses, and a paltry 3 Hydrogen Fuel Cell buses:

http://insideevs.com/seven-electric-and ... 5-million/

The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal TransitAdministration (FTA) has announced a new round of alternative energy grants.

TOTAL $22,500,000


CA LACMTA under Southern California Association of Governments (SCAG) The Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (LACMTA) will receive $4,275,000 toward five battery-electric zero-emission buses, as well as eight charging stations. This electric bus infrastructure will serve the Metro Orange Line bus rapid transit corridor in the City of Los Angeles. LACMTA will also partner with the Southern California Regional Transit Training Consortium to include workforce development in support of zero-emission technology. $4,275,000

CA Foothill Transit under Southern California Association of Governments (SCAG) Foothill Transit will receive $1,310,000 toward electric charging facilities that will support the agency’s ongoing electric bus program, which includes an electric-only bus line. This program will help expand Foothill Transit’s electric bus capabilities. $1,310,000

CA AC Transit Under the Metropolitan Transportation Commission Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District (AC Transit) will receive $1,551,611 toward five battery-electric buses and related equipment. AC Transit has experience deploying zero-emission buses, including battery-electric buses and fuel cell electric buses. This project will expand AC Transit’s clean vehicle infrastructure in addition to providing valuable data comparing battery-electric to fuel cell technology. $1,551,611

OH Stark Area Regional Transit Authority The Stark Area Regional Transit Authority (SARTA) will receive $4,015,174 toward three zero-emission American Fuel Cell Buses (AFCBs). This project will build on SARTA’s successful, existing fuel cell bus program, which has already established hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure and will soon deploy five AFCBs in Stark County. $4,015,174

PA Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) will receive $2,585,075 toward the purchase of 25 zero-emission all-electric buses and related equipment. These vehicles will be deployed on bus routes in South Philadelphia, and an associated workforce development program will further contribute to the project’s economic impact. $2,585,075

UT Utah Transit Authority (UTA) The Utah Transit Authority (UTA) will receive $5,427,100 toward five battery-electric zero-emission buses. Partnering with the University of Utah, these buses will serve the route connecting the campus to Salt Lake City. This program builds on UTA’s extensive commitment to low and no-emission vehicles and technology. $5,427,100

WA King County King County Metro will receive $3,336,040 toward eight battery-electric zero-emission buses, which will allow two routes to be operated using entirely zero-emission vehicles. $3,336,040

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Sat May 07, 2016 3:13 pm

I particularly like AC Transit's award:

CA AC Transit Under the Metropolitan Transportation Commission Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District (AC Transit) will receive $1,551,611 toward five battery-electric buses and related equipment. AC Transit has experience deploying zero-emission buses, including battery-electric buses and fuel cell electric buses. This project will expand AC Transit’s clean vehicle infrastructure in addition to providing valuable data comparing battery-electric to fuel cell technology.

Oh, the three FCEV buses going to Stark County (Greater Canton area), Ohio add to the five they've already got on order. I gather their service area is pretty large and their fleet a medium size (80 buses. By comparison, AC Transit has 586 per Wiki), so it makes sense to buy buses with the capability to be used on all routes interchangeably. Larger fleets can afford to specialize a bit, and all the other awards Tony listed seem to be restricting their BEV buses to only a few routes, often just one or two. I do like that Los Angeles County will be using theirs on a BRT line (with charging stations along it).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9206
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Mon May 16, 2016 2:44 pm

Via GCC:
Proterra boosts capacity of Catalyst XR battery pack 28% to 330 kWh with new design, same volume as predecessor
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/05 ... terra.html

Battery-electric bus manufacturer Proterra announced a new battery pack design for the Proterra Catalyst XR transit vehicle at the American Public Transportation Association Bus and Paratransit Conference (APTA). Within the same volumetric footprint as that in the original Catalyst XR, the new energy storage system now holds 28% more energy at 330 kWh.

All current Catalyst XR customers that are still waiting on their buses to be delivered will receive a complimentary upgrade to the higher energy level. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue May 17, 2016 5:03 am

GRA wrote:Via GCC:
Proterra boosts capacity of Catalyst XR battery pack 28% to 330 kWh with new design, same volume as predecessor
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/05 ... terra.html

Battery-electric bus manufacturer Proterra announced a new battery pack design for the Proterra Catalyst XR transit vehicle at the American Public Transportation Association Bus and Paratransit Conference (APTA). Within the same volumetric footprint as that in the original Catalyst XR, the new energy storage system now holds 28% more energy at 330 kWh.

All current Catalyst XR customers that are still waiting on their buses to be delivered will receive a complimentary upgrade to the higher energy level. . . .
Thanks for that link. Once again we see NMC li-ion batteries enabling BEVs to tackle real-world applications.

One thing I find interesting here is that the new battery enables a range of 194 miles:
Green Car Congress wrote:Longest nominal range: capable of traveling a maximum of 194 miles (312 km) on a single charge, based on Altoona efficiency measures. Actual mileage will vary with route conditions.
Contrast this with what I had quoted in the OP:
RegGuheert wrote:
TreeHugger.com wrote:This milestone is important because once you pass the average driving range needed in a day by a bus, with a margin of safety on top, electric buses become ready for the big time:
Based on these test results, Proterra predicts its ten pack XR configuration (321kWh) will achieve 300 miles on a single charge. According to available General Transit Feed Specification (GTFS) data, typical urban and rural bus routes in the United States run less than 200 miles a day, bringing most routes within reach of Proterra’s current technology.
In other words, eight months ago, 321 kWh would propel these buses 300 miles, but today 330 kWh takes them less than 2/3 the distance: 194 miles. Of course, the difference is that the test done eight months ago was achieved in ideal conditions while the 194-mile number is what they are willing to put on the datasheet for more-real-life situations when you need climate control for passengers. In other words, the hype is being replaced by reality. I see this as a good sign that these buses are ACTUALLY entering the market for good.

But the fact is that real-world range will likely be quite a bit shorter in very cold conditions, so it seems these buses will be a bit shy of the range needed for even the "typical urban and rural bus routes in the United States". But since the Catalyst XR buses support quick charging, I wonder if they will be able to make up any shortfall with operational considerations.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue May 17, 2016 3:19 pm

RegGuheert wrote:<snip> Thanks for that link. Once again we see NMC li-ion batteries enabling BEVs to tackle real-world applications.

One thing I find interesting here is that the new battery enables a range of 194 miles:
Green Car Congress wrote:Longest nominal range: capable of traveling a maximum of 194 miles (312 km) on a single charge, based on Altoona efficiency measures. Actual mileage will vary with route conditions.
Contrast this with what I had quoted in the OP:
RegGuheert wrote:
TreeHugger.com wrote:This milestone is important because once you pass the average driving range needed in a day by a bus, with a margin of safety on top, electric buses become ready for the big time:
In other words, eight months ago, 321 kWh would propel these buses 300 miles, but today 330 kWh takes them less than 2/3 the distance: 194 miles. Of course, the difference is that the test done eight months ago was achieved in ideal conditions while the 194-mile number is what they are willing to put on the datasheet for more-real-life situations when you need climate control for passengers. In other words, the hype is being replaced by reality. I see this as a good sign that these buses are ACTUALLY entering the market for good.

But the fact is that real-world range will likely be quite a bit shorter in very cold conditions, so it seems these buses will be a bit shy of the range needed for even the "typical urban and rural bus routes in the United States". But since the Catalyst XR buses support quick charging, I wonder if they will be able to make up any shortfall with operational considerations.

Wouldn't en route QC defeat the purpose of hauling around that big battery? They've got the fast charge version for that. While I'm sure that they could top up a bit at the end of runs, unless those end points were shared with routes equipped with fast charge models the extra expense of building quick chargers would seem to blow TCO through the roof. Nevertheless, it is good to see that BEV buses are getting closer to being able to do a full day's running using only overnight charging at the barn.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9206
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue May 17, 2016 3:28 pm

Via GCC:
Indian tech company wins ITF innovation award for converting diesel buses into EVs
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/05 ... -kpit.html

. . . The first electric bus retrofitted by KPIT was unveiled by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in December 2015. Two such retrofitted buses are currently operated by the Indian Ministry for Road Transport and Highways.

India currently has more than 1.2 million buses in operation, with 50,000 being added every year. Most use diesel engines that contribute significantly to air pollution in Indian cities. Each diesel bus emits 48 tonnes of CO2 per year on average. Replacing 5,000 diesel buses in Indian cities with electric buses would reduce diesel consumption by 95 million liters and save 238,000 tonnes of CO2.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9206
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:14 pm

Via GCC:
Marseilles putting first 12m electric bus into service
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/06 ... 7-rtm.html

. . .The Irizar i2e, which will serve on line 82 / 82S in the French city, is the first 12m electric city bus in revenue service in France.

The Irizar i2e, powered by a 374 kWh battery pack, was designed to offer a range between 200 and 250 km (124 to 155 miles), with a single charge at the end of the day. After only five hours of charging, it is guaranteed to drive between 14 and 16 hours. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:11 am

Not much said about school bus applications but I was just reviewing the Lion Electric bus made in Quebec. It appears to be quite competent.

GRA
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Re: Battery-electric bus discussion

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:09 pm

Should we start a PHEV bus thread, for articles like this one? Via GCC:
Luxembourg bus operator orders five Volvo 7900 plug-in hybrid buses; ABB fast chargers
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/06 ... volvo.html

. . . The five buses and chargers will be delivered towards the end of this year; one of the bus chargers will be placed at the central station in Luxembourg. . . .

Volvo will be responsible for vehicle servicing including battery maintenance for a fixed monthly cost.

The Volvo 7900 Electric Hybrid can be powered by electricity for up to 70% of operating time, and offers 60% lower energy consumption than a corresponding diesel bus with 75–90% lower emissions of carbon dioxide compared with a conventional Euro 6 diesel bus . . . .

The ABB bus chargers [use an] inverted pantograph . . . on [the] roof of the bus. The modular design offers charging power of 150 kW, 300 kW or 450 kW. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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