rmay635703
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:55 am

Honda really isn't a player in the zev game.

Compliance only

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:27 pm

rmay635703 wrote:Honda really isn't a player in the zev game.

Compliance only


True. But the Clarity PHEV isn't a ZEV. I'm not ready to brush it off as compliance only until I see 1) price and 2) availability. If both of those are done right, it could show some impressive sales volume.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:15 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
rmay635703 wrote:Honda really isn't a player in the zev game.

Compliance only


True. But the Clarity PHEV isn't a ZEV. I'm not ready to brush it off as compliance only until I see 1) price and 2) availability. If both of those are done right, it could show some impressive sales volume.

+1, with the emphasis on price. If they have a base price under $30k I think it will do really well; between $30k and the Volt, okay; but if they price it like the Accord PHEV it will sink without a bubble.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:00 pm

Via IEVS:
Honda Clarity Q&A: Midsize Plug-In Hybrid From $35,000 (Or So)
http://insideevs.com/honda-clarity-midsize-42-mpg/

To get more information, we sat down with Steven Center, vice president of the Environmental Business Development Office and the Product Regulatory Office of American Honda. Here’s a few highlights of our chat and other information that Honda disclosed about the Clarity Series:

    The price for both the Electric and Plug-In Hybrid versions of the Clarity will be in the mid-$35,000 range.
    Honda expects to sell very few of the all-electric models, with the fuel cell perhaps outselling it.
    Honda expects the Plug-In Hybrid to get a gasoline-only rating of 42 MPG, but official numbers are not yet available.
    Honda is fully aware that the 13-mile EV range in the Accord PHEV was simply not enough.
    There’s more than a hint that some sort of larger electrified vehicle is coming. Details, of course, were not available.
    During Honda’s press conference earlier in the day, Center ended his presentation with this: “Electrification is the future of mobility, and the future of Honda, and it all starts now.” So now you know where he stands, at least.

The article includes a lot of the interview with Steven Center, who says a lot of sensible things, although to me he seems to be going through the motions when repeating the official line that 80 miles range for the BEV is enough (and does say that the FCEV may well outsell it). At $35k, it's going to have to be a lot more luxurious than the Volt, but may well kill the Sonata/Optima PHEVs. This leaves the Prime free to clean up the under $30k PHEV market.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:10 pm

Via ABG, an article with a similar negative opinion of the Clarity BEV as many have expressed here:
The Honda Clarity [GRA: B]EV doesn't make any sense
A lousy value proposition, especially compared with its own twin.
http://www.autoblog.com/2017/04/13/hond ... ork-nyias/

At this year's New York Auto Show, Honda launched the Clarity Fuel Cell's counterparts, the Clarity Electric and Clarity Plug-In Hybrid. It makes sense that Honda would expand its alternative-fuel model to encompass electricity, since hydrogen isn't a sure thing. What doesn't make sense is why Honda would enter the EV game with such an uncompetitive vehicle.

When compared with current electric cars in the marketplace, the Clarity Electric comes up short in both range and price. The Honda will go only 80 miles on a charge, and the company will charge you a price in the mid-$30,000s for the privilege. Both the Nissan Leaf and Kia Soul EV outperform the Clarity Electric with ranges of 107 and 93 miles respectively, and price tags in the low-$30,000 realm. But the bigger issue is the Chevrolet Bolt EV, which offers a whopping 238 miles for just over $37,000. (Note: All given prices are before incentives). The Clarity is a pitiful value proposition from a range standpoint. . . .

The Clarity Electric comes across as a truly half-hearted attempt at making a full EV. Even the Electric's availability seems reluctant, as it will only be sold in California and Oregon to begin. Perhaps Honda itself realizes that the Clarity Electric isn't good enough to take on the EV establishment. And if that's the case, we have to ask, why did Honda even bother with the car in the first place? Let's hope subsequent Clarity Electrics will be more compelling.

The author does have some positive things to say about the size and luxury appointments, but points out that they will be offered in its twin (the PHEV) as well.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Foschas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:03 am


GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue May 02, 2017 5:40 pm

April U.S. Clarity FCEV sales per Good Car/Bad Car: 34 (126 YTD)

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/11/ho ... nthly.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:26 pm

May U.S. Clarity FCEV sales per Good Car/Bad Car: 119 (245 YTD):http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/11/honda-fcx-sales-figures-usa-yearly-monthly.html This is virtually the same total as had been leased in the first four months of the year combined (126) and is nearly triple its best previous month (January, 42). Its starting to close in on the Mirai (162 for May), so perhaps the word is getting out that it's a better car than the Mirai except for the trunk space.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:43 pm

Via Automotive News, some real-world Clarity FCEV ranges:
For many, Honda's Clarity is too good a deal to pass up
http://www.autonews.com/article/2017042 ... to-pass-up

One bit of info I wasn't aware of is that the car holds 0.6kg as a reserve when the GoM reads '0' miles remaining, so you've probably got another 30-40 miles (which is a fairly typical reserve value for most cars, and 30 miles is what I normally subtract from the max. in the prevailing conditions when figuring a car's no-worries range).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:42 pm

Via IEVS: June U.S. Clarity sales 49 (294 YTD), a big drop from 119 last month. Not sure why. Mirai dropped too, but only from 162 to 126.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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