DarthPuppy
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue May 01, 2018 9:41 pm

GRA wrote:The short answer to that last question is that you can't stand the looks, you don't qualify for the full rebate or you don't want a sedan. The Volt remains the closest competitor, IMO winning on looks, driving dynamics, slightly better range and flexibility, but losing on the fifth seat and rear seat headroom.

Except that looks are subjective. I really like both the Clarity and the Volt, so not an issue for me.

However, there is also the price difference. To be apples to apples to my Touring version of the Clarity, the Volt has to add options to the Premier trim to get comparably equipped. Once you do that, the Volt is $3k more expensive. Granted, if someone is seriously going for the fully featured premium trim $37k car, odds are an extra $3k isn't going to sink the deal. But the price difference should still be in the comparison.
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RegGuheert
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Wed May 02, 2018 4:23 am

GRA wrote:Via IEVS, "Alex on Autos" video review of the Clarity PHEV: https://insideevs.com/alex-on-autos-reviews-honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid/

. . . Alex seems extremely impressed with the Clarity Plug-in Hybrid. . . .
<snip>
Once you consider the fuel savings, the choice is really a no-brainer.

    Honda seems to be done playing it safe in the world of hybrids,...
    <snip>
    What do I mean by no compromises? I mean an honest to goodness trunk, 212 horsepower, a wide and comfortable back seat, standard active safety tech and a price tag just $800 more than an Accord Hybrid (after tax credits). Why would you buy anything else? I’m not sure either.

The short answer to that last question is that you can't stand the looks, you don't qualify for the full rebate or you don't want a sedan. The Volt remains the closest competitor, IMO winning on looks, driving dynamics, slightly better range and flexibility, but losing on the fifth seat and rear seat headroom.
The Honda Clarity PHEV looks like a very nice car, but it seems to me that both you and Alex are missing a few important points:

1) $37,000 is more than many people are willing or able to spend on an automobile.
2) Do you call it "playing it safe" when you build hybrids which have batteries that wear out after 100,000 miles and then double-down on the next generation and make them even worse? (And, yes, Nissan seems to have done the same thing with the 30-kWh LEAF.) We still love our 16-year-old Honda Civic Hybrid, but many people swore off Honda hybrids because they showed no interest in making the product better while Toyota fixed most of their battery woes. In other words, Honda has yet to prove that they can build a reliable battery system in ANY car.
3) How can a PHEV be a "no-brainer" when there are outstanding BEVs out there with much more all-electric range in the same price range? Sorry, but many of us feel that the extra complexity that is required to cling to the tit of the petroleum companies is not a good trade-off.
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GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu May 03, 2018 3:57 pm

RegGuheert wrote:The Honda Clarity PHEV looks like a very nice car, but it seems to me that both you and Alex are missing a few important points:

1) $37,000 is more than many people are willing or able to spend on an automobile.
2) Do you call it "playing it safe" when you build hybrids which have batteries that wear out after 100,000 miles and then double-down on the next generation and make them even worse? (And, yes, Nissan seems to have done the same thing with the 30-kWh LEAF.) We still love our 16-year-old Honda Civic Hybrid, but many people swore off Honda hybrids because they showed no interest in making the product better while Toyota fixed most of their battery woes. In other words, Honda has yet to prove that they can build a reliable battery system in ANY car.
3) How can a PHEV be a "no-brainer" when there are outstanding BEVs out there with much more all-electric range in the same price range? Sorry, but many of us feel that the extra complexity that is required to cling to the tit of the petroleum companies is not a good trade-off.

1. Fortunately, the Prime, Ionic and other sub-$30k PHEVs are also available.

2.Whether people are concerned about a Honda's potential battery degradation is up to them, but then that's a smaller issue for a PHEV than it is a BEV, as the car remains usable for the same trips (using more gas, to be sure).

3.Anyone who feels that way should buy themselves a BEV. For the other 99+% of the population who aren't yet willing to do so, a PHEV gets them into a car that will allow them to do some or all of their routine local driving ZEV, while eliminating range anxiety and also eliminating the need to have a second car for longer trips. More options are a good thing.
Last edited by GRA on Thu May 03, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu May 03, 2018 4:08 pm

[Updated] Via IEVS, April Clarity sales are:

PHEV, 1,150.
FCEV, 156.
BEV, 52.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri May 11, 2018 4:02 pm

Via GCR:
2018 Honda Clarity Electric hits dealerships in California and Oregon with $199 lease deal
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116683_2018-honda-clarity-electric-hits-dealerships-in-california-and-oregon-with-199-lease-deal
The 2018 Honda Clarity Electric car rolled into California and Oregon dealerships this week, but nobody can buy it. It's only available for lease for $199 a month for 36 months with $1,499 due at signing. That figure reflects the $7,500 federal tax credit, which Honda finance will keep as part of the capitalized cost reduction of the lease.

The Clarity Electric, however, also qualifies for a $2,500 tax rebate in each of the states where it's sold. Counting the state tax credit, consumers can drive home the Clarity Electric for $199 a month for 36 months and end up with $1,000 in their pockets to boot. . . .

Honda may need such motivation for to get buyers to pony up at all for a mid-size battery electric sedan with only 89 miles of range from its 25.5-kwh battery, when most other new electric models offer more for 2018. . . .

Yup.
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cwerdna
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Wed May 30, 2018 11:33 pm

GRA wrote:[Updated] Via IEVS, April Clarity sales are:

PHEV, 1,150.
FCEV, 156.
BEV, 52.

It's interesting their BEV number is quite different from the 7 reported at http://www.hybridcars.com/april-2018-sales-dashboard/. In either case, the number is puny for the BEV.

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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu May 31, 2018 3:19 pm

cwerdna wrote:
GRA wrote:[Updated] Via IEVS, April Clarity sales are:

PHEV, 1,150.
FCEV, 156.
BEV, 52.

It's interesting their BEV number is quite different from the 7 reported at http://www.hybridcars.com/april-2018-sales-dashboard/. In either case, the number is puny for the BEV.

I've given up trying to reconcile different sources because they almost never agree, so am sticking to IEVS numbers from now on unless they simply aren't available.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:17 pm

Per IEVS, May Clarity sales/leases are [previous month in ( )]:

PHEV, 1,639 (1,150).
FCEV, 30 (156).
BEV, 37 (52).

The PHEV continues to increase sales. The FCEV suffered a big drop (guessing it's due to lack of inventory), less than a third of the Mirai's 102 when the Clarity FCEV had been consistently outselling it. IIRR, for the first time ever when both have been on sale the Clarity BEV total was higher than the FCEV, although continuing its downward trend (as expected, as its range @ price simply isn't competitive with contemporary BEVs).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:48 pm

Finally, per IEVS, June Clarity sales/leases are [previous month in ( )]:

PHEV, 1,445 (1,639).
FCEV, 35 (30).
BEV, 95 (37).

Sales are somewhat down M-O-M for most of the top ten PEV best-sellers except the three Tesla models, which show the usual quarter-ending surge. Surprisingly, the Clarity BEV showed a bit more life, while the FCEV stayed well below its results prior to last month, and the Mirai outsold it (103). How much of that may be due to restricted availability and how much to the now widespread availability of the PHEV, I couldn't say, as I haven't seen any info on numbers at dealers or shipments. With the delay in the increase of H2 stations in California and the less-expensive PHEV being here, the latter looks to be a much more viable option for now for people who want to be able to take convenient road trips while still doing most of their routine driving ZEV.
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:24 pm

I'm now seeing Clarity's on the road in So. Cal. on a more regular basis. :D

I don't think I've seen the FCEV version yet, but kind of hard to tell them apart unless close enough to read the labeling or see the driver's side to see which fuel ports are there. (FCEV has a single rear door, EV has a single front door, and PHEV has one of each.)
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