Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

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GRA

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Figured I'd start a thread, given the announcement below via GCC:
Honda to highlight new FCV, NSX hybrid, NEOWING hybrid, production model of Odyssey Hybrid at Tokyo Motor Show
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/09/20150930-honda.html

Once it's named I'll change the title.
At the upcoming 44th Tokyo Motor Show 2015, Honda will showcase its all-new fuel cell vehicle—tentatively being called the FCV, NSX hybrid supercar, and NEOWING three-wheeler hybrid, as well as stage the Japan premiere of the all-new Civic Type R and the planned production model of the Odyssey Hybrid equipped with the further advanced SPORT HYBRID-iMMD (Intelligent Multi-Mode Drive) system.

The new FCV sedan consolidates the entire fuel-cell powertrain under the hood of a sedan-type vehicle. This powertrain layout enabled a full cabin package that seats five adults comfortably. The FCV features a cruising range of more than 700 km (435 miles) on the JC08 mode. When paired with an external power feeding inverter, this FCV can function as a “mobile power plant” that generates and provides electricity to the community in the case of an emergency. . . .
The rest of the article is about the other cars. JC08 is apparently not quite as liberal as NEDC, so figure EPA range might by 75-80% of that 435 miles. Toyota measured the Mirai at 650 km (404 miles) on JC08 and got 312 miles from the EPA, so 312/404 = .77. Assuming the same fraction for the Honda, 435 * .77 = 335 miles.
 
Via GCR:
Honda FCV Sedan Teased Ahead Of 2015 Tokyo Motor Show
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100264_honda-fcv-sedan-teased-ahead-of-2015-tokyo-motor-show

Another article on the upcoming announcement, but includes some apparently official artist's renderings. It's better looking than the Mirai (I think that claim should win some sort of award for 'lowest limbo' dance - really, could the bar be set any lower? ;) ), although it still has some awkward-looking elements.
 
Styling is a matter of taste. I like both the artist concept for the Honda FCV and the Mirai that I saw/drove.

I will look forward to seeing what Honda can put forward when it gets here. Thanks for posting.
 
DarthPuppy said:
Styling is a matter of taste..
'IMO' is implied whenever taste is involved.

DarthPuppy said:
I like both the artist concept for the Honda FCV and the Mirai that I saw/drove. I will look forward to seeing what Honda can put forward when it gets here. Thanks for posting.
You should let Toyota know that you like the looks of the Mirai - their designers must be pretty depressed, given the almost universally negative response to its (and the new Prius') looks in the U.S. (at least, among those who've expressed an opinion in print/on line).
 
Via GCR:
Honda's Tokyo Fuel-Cell Vehicle May Be Its Electric Car And Plug-In Hybrid Too
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100634_hondas-tokyo-fuel-cell-vehicle-may-be-its-electric-car-and-plug-in-hybrid-too

IOW, they may be going the same route that VW did with the MQB platform, designing a single platform that can handle a variety of unconventional powertrain technologies. It's the way to go to boost production volumes and lower costs, even if you lose a bit of space or performance through not being optimized for a single powertrain tech.
 
Now that the car has been named, I've changed the title.

Via GCC:
Honda leverages older name for new FCV: Clarity Fuel Cell makes its debut at Tokyo; 435-mile range on JC08
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/10/20151027-clarity.html

Honda Motor Co., Ltd. unveiled the planned production model of its all-new fuel cell vehicle (FCV), called Clarity Fuel Cell, at the 44th Tokyo Motor Show 2015. This model will be on display at the Honda booth during the show. The name honors its predecessor, the FCX Clarity fuel cell vehicle, introduced at the LA Auto Show in 2007. (Earlier post.)

Employing original Honda technologies, the fuel cell stack for this model was downsized by 33% compared to the previous version of the fuel cell stack yet delivers output of more than 100 kW, with an output density of 3.1 kW/L—approximately a 60% improvement. The fuel cell powertrain was made as compact as a Honda 3.5L V6 engine, enabling it to be packaged under the hood of a sedan-type vehicle for the first time. This powertrain layout enabled a full cabin package that seats five adults. . . .

Using the same JC08 to EPA conversion factor as the Mirai of .77, the range works out to about 335 miles EPA. We'll see. Introduction in Japan (lease-only apparently) in March 2016, for the first year aimed primarily at business and govt. customers, then gradually expanding. Japan price $63,670, not sure what the Mirai price is there.
 
Via GCC:
Honda Clarity Fuel Cell sedan makes N. American debut at LA Auto Show; available in California late 2016; PHEV in 2018
http://www.greencarcongress.com/

. . . The new Honda Clarity Fuel Cell will feature a driving range estimated to exceed 300 miles, and an anticipated refueling time of approximately three minutes at a pressure of 70 MPa.

Additional features include the Honda Sensing suite of safety and driver assistive technologies, support for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, LED exterior lighting and 18-inch aluminum alloy wheels. The Clarity Fuel Cell will be available in black, white and signature red exterior paint schemes.

Honda will begin deliveries of the Clarity Fuel Cell to customers in late 2016 through select fuel cell dealers in select California markets starting in Los Angeles and Orange Counties, the San Francisco Bay Area and Sacramento.

Eventually, Honda will expand the scope of its marketing to additional California markets and other states, including the Northeast as hydrogen refueling networks expand.

Honda said the Clarity Fuel Cell will be priced competitively with others in the segment; Honda expects its new generation of environmental vehicles, which includes the Clarity Fuel Cell, to serve as a new volume pillar for Honda. . . .

Also see the articles at ievs and GCR, which contain much of the same info on the Clarity: http://insideevs.com/honda-commits-to-2018-nationwide-launch-for-40-mile-plug-in-hybrid/

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101043_honda-clarity-on-sale-late-in-2016-plug-in-hybrid-to-get-40-miles-of-range
 
Via GCC:
Honda to begin leasing Clarity fuel cell vehicle in California by year end; targeting <$500/month
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/01/honda-to-begin-leasing-clarity-fuel-cell-vehicle-in-california-by-year-end-targeting-500month.html

. . . Honda expects to price the Clarity Fuel Cell at around $60,000 with a targeted monthly lease under $500.

Honda expects limited volumes in the early stages of production. Deliveries will begin through certified fuel cell vehicle dealers in Los Angeles and Orange counties as well as the San Francisco Bay Area and Sacramento. The company will start by leasing vehicles and expects to move to retail sales with increased volumes and market coverage coincident with increasing vehicle supplies and the growing hydrogen refueling station network. . . .
 
Via GCC:
Honda begins sales of Clarity Fuel Cell in Japan; targeting 200 units first year
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/03/20160311-honda.html

On 10 March, Honda Motor Co. began sales in Japan of its all-new fuel cell vehicle (FCV), the Clarity Fuel Cell. (Earlier post.) Honda is targeting sales of approximately 200 units in the first year, with a focus on lease sales mainly to local government bodies or businesses Honda has already been working with over the years for the development and popularization of FCVs.

During this period, Honda will collect information about the in-market use of the Clarity Fuel Cell as well as its external power output device and gather opinions and requests from customers and other relevant organizations, and then later begin sales to individual customers. . . .
 
Honda decides they actually want to sell the Charity... errr...Clarity. Will offer PHEV (40 mile battery range) and BEV variants.

http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/honda-to-expand-clarity-three-car-lineup-ev-and-plug-in/#ftag=CAD590a51e
 
Firetruck41 said:
Honda decides they actually want to sell the Charity... errr...Clarity. Will offer PHEV (40 mile battery range) and BEV variants.

http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/honda-to-expand-clarity-three-car-lineup-ev-and-plug-in/#ftag=CAD590a51e
I recall commenting after a test drive of the gen 1 clarity a few years back, that Honda would have a pretty good BEV there if they just got rid of the fuel cell and put a battery pack in it...

Hopefully, the contrast between the Clarity BEV's convenient, reliable, cheap, and efficient fueling using electricity, in contrast to the comical inefficiencies of fueling the same car with hydrogen, will accelerate the demise of the FCV fantasy before too many more $ billions of public funds are thrown down that particular rat hole.

A few more details (none on the specifics of the BEV, though) here:

...The Clarity hydrogen fuel-cell hatchback set to go on sale late this year will be followed by an all-electric Clarity next year. A third model -- a Clarity plug-in hybrid -- will be launched later in 2017, Honda said Thursday...
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160421/OEM04/160429978/honda-to-create-green-clarity-family-with-ev-plug-in-hybrid-variants
 
Article reporting the priority to aero performance indicates the BEV version of the Clarity may be the most efficient BEV available in the US market, at freeway speeds.

And let's hope the BEV also has what every BEV should have, an integral AC supply port, as well as a DC port (CHAdeMO, preferably) allowing both Charging and discharging at any capable DC site.

What's behind the Clarity's quirky looks?

"Beautiful" the new Honda Clarity hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is not.

With its partially covered wheels, bulbous front end and a plethora of slits, vents and creases, the zero-emission car obviously is aiming for something other than good looks.

But Honda engineers and designers say there is method behind the madness of flourishes that make the Clarity the brand's most visually jarring design since the first-generation hybrid Insight.

Namely: aerodynamics...

Honda won't disclose the Clarity's drag coefficient. But Shugo Kamemoto, the assistant chief engineer in charge of aerodynamics, says it is the slickest sedan in Honda's lineup...

Two fuel flaps?
The car also has two fuel ports -- one on each back corner. One is for refilling the car's two hydrogen tanks. The other is actually an electrical outlet that allows owners to use the Clarity as a portable generator to power everything from barbecue grills to homes hit by blackouts...
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160423/OEM03/304259992/whats-behind-the-claritys-quirky-looks

GRA- how about changing the thread tile to reflect the multiple versions?
 
Still no clarity, IMO, as to whether the BEV version will be any more than another compliance model from Honda.

But that statement indicates Honda probably realized introduction of the Clarity only as a FCV was a hopeless proposition.

Honda brings clarity to electrification strategy

...An all-electric Clarity is due next year, followed by a plug-in hybrid version. While the designs of the latter two models have yet to be revealed, they'll have the same platform, five-seat-hatchback layout and design as the fuel cell model.

The setup gives Honda crucial flexibility to adjust production capacity quickly if demand jumps for one version over another...

Honda says it's too early to cite specific volume expectations. John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., predicted that in the runup to 2030 -- by which time Honda hopes to have two-thirds of its global sales from electrified vehicles -- the Clarity line could sell at near the volumes of the Accord.

"We are strongly committed to doing a volume business with Clarity," Mendel said...
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160425/OEM05/304259960/honda-brings-clarity-to-electrification-strategy
 
Via GCC:
Honda Clarity Fuel Cell EPA-rated with 366-mile range; longest of any ZEV
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/10/20161024-honda.html

. . . Honda will introduce the new 5-passenger, hydrogen-powered Clarity Fuel Cell sedan by the end of 2016, beginning with retail leasing to customers through its expanded network of 12 approved fuel cell vehicle dealerships located in select California markets.

The network includes six dealerships in Southern California, five in the Bay Area and one in Sacramento. Honda will further develop its dealer network as more hydrogen fueling stations become available.

The Clarity Fuel Cell fuel cell stack is 33% more compact than its predecessor with a 60% increase in power density compared to the outgoing Honda FCX Clarity. . . .
69/67/68 MPGe, per another article in GCR: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106845_2017-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-rated-at-366-miles-of-range-by-epa

FCEV range is essentially now equal to ICEs. Unfortunately, my inspection of a Clarity FCEV at the local National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day event on 10/08 showed that the trunk space was seriously compromised in the front half by a large hump over what I assume is a fuel tank. As the car's a sedan without folding seats, that will seriously impact its utility for many, although those more concerned with passenger than cargo capacity will prefer its 5 seats to the Mirai's 4.

Personally, I'd prefer the Tucson's space/utility with the Mirai's or Clarity's range. One more article on the same subject: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/24/honda-clarity-fuel-cell-has-the-longest-range-of-any-ev-366-mil/
 
Via GCC:
Honda leasing 2017 Clarity Fuel Cell at $369/month, including fuel
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/11/20161118-honda.html

Honda announced a competitive introductory lease price of $369 a month for 36 months (plus tax) for the Clarity Fuel Cell sedan, which is coming to dealerships in California by the end of 2016. The lease requires $2,499 plus first month’s payment at lease signing (not including tax, registration or official fees). The lease terms include a mileage allowance of 20,000 per year, up to $15,000 of hydrogen fuel, up to 21 days of an Avis Luxury Rental in California, and 24/7 roadside assistance.

Retail leasing will be available to residents who live or work near Honda’s network of 12 approved fuel cell vehicle dealerships located in select California markets. This network includes six dealerships in Southern California, five in the Bay Area and one in Sacramento. Honda will further develop its dealer network as consumer friendly hydrogen fueling stations become available. . . .
So, $20/month more than the Mirai but 20k miles/yr., with the other terms the same as the Mirai.
 
Via GCC:
First Honda Clarity Fuel Cell vehicles arrive in Europe as part of HyFIVE demo
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12/20161203-honda.html

. . . The first six vehicles will be based with customers in London and Copenhagen as part of the Hydrogen for Innovative Vehicles (HyFIVE) demonstration project, partly funded by the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCHJU). . . .

The HyFIVE project aims to promote the awareness and adoption of fuel cell vehicle technology and infrastructure across Europe. Once deployment is completed, 185 fuel cell vehicles from five automotive manufacturers will be with private and corporate customers across Austria, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Sweden and UK. . . .
 
Via IEVS:
First Honda Clarity Fuel Cell Cars Delivered, Next Up An All-Electric and PHEV Clarity
http://insideevs.com/first-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-cars-delivered-in-california-next-up-an-all-electric-and-phev-clarity/

. . .Interestingly, the first six cars were delivered to former Clarity FCX users from Southern California, so there will be no surprises as to what the fuel cell can (or can’t do).

Hopefully soon we will get the first reviews and insight of how the latest Japanese hydrogen fuel cells copes with California’s fuel cell infrastructure, as well as its on-road performance. . . .
 
Motor Trend:
2017 HONDA CLARITY FUEL CELL QUICK DRIVE REVIEW: FULL CIRCLE
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-review/

. . . Put simply, if the Mirai drives like a Prius, the Clarity resembles an Accord. The Clarity exhibits a similar driving feel to other Honda sedans, from its balanced steering to the way it handles potholes and unruly road surfaces. Like what you’d expect from a vehicle with regenerative braking, the brakes aren’t celery-crisp. But there’s a clear engagement point when dipping into the friction brakes, a quality the Mirai lacks. . . .
I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but the Clarity has a lease allowance of 20k miles/year vs. 12k for the Mirai. So, while you pay $20/month extra compared to the Mirai , you are getting considerably more miles, assuming you don't exceed the $15k fuel budget. As a practical matter that would likely be hard to do - the Clarity is rated at 67 mpgE Hwy, and even if you knock it down to 60 mpgE, 20,000/60 is 333.33 kg. year, or 1,000kg. over 3 years. At the highest current price for H2 in California of $16.78/kg it would cost you $5,593.33 to drive 20k miles, $16,780 (minus Honda's $15k, so $1,780) to drive 60k. For $15k, you can drive 53,635 miles on Honda's dime if you get 60 mpgE. if you get a bit over 67.2 mpgE or more, you can do the whole 60k miles free. At lower fuel prices (lowest current in Ca. is apparently $12.85/kg, and the average is about$16.50/kg. as of end Q3 2016) there's little or no problem.
 
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