edatoakrun
Posts: 4851
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:18 pm

GRA wrote:...At least they've recognized that almost no one would buy the BEV, when there's so many other options that provide better value for the money, now and in the near future.

Silly speculation. At the right price, Honda could sell as many as it wanted to.

Both the BEV and PHEV are essentially conversions of the Clarity FCEV.

The BEV is a compliance car, and may only be produced in small numbers, for a few years.

Since leases comply just as well as sales do in earning ZEV credits, Why would Honda want to sell any of them?

Think of the massive headache Toyota gave itself by selling a few k RAV4Es, and obligating itself to support those crap-mobiles for many years, at great cost.

In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or can re-battery them first, or just remove the packs and send the rest to the crusher, if it wants to.
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 7738
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:27 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:...At least they've recognized that almost no one would buy the BEV, when there's so many other options that provide better value for the money, now and in the near future.

Silly speculation.

Both the BEV and PHEV are essentially conversions of the Clarity FCEV.
I could be wrong, but ISTR that they designed the Clarity to accept any of the three powertrains (much as Kia is doing).

edatoakrun wrote:The BEV is a compliance car, and may only be produced in small numbers, for a few years.

Good, we agree that it's specs so limit its market that it can't be anything else.

edatoakrun wrote:Since leases comply just as well as sales do in earning ZEV credits, Why would Honda want to sell any of them?

Think of the massive headache Toyota gave itself by selling a few k RAV4Es, and obligating itself to support those crap-mobiles for many years, at great cost.

In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them then, in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or re-battery them first, or just send them to the crusher, if it wants to.

Yup, it's a throwaway.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
Posts: 4851
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:59 pm

GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:..In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them then, in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or re-battery them first, or just remove the packs and send the rest to the crusher, if it wants to.

Yup, it's a throwaway.

Every ICEV you've ever owned was and is a throwaway car, as was/will be every HEV, small-pack PHEV, and FCEV that will ever be built.

Only BEVs have components with substantial second-life value, their battery packs.
In fact, in some ways it's depressing to think my 2011 LEAF pack could well survive me...
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 7738
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:12 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:..In three years, when the leases expire, Honda will have complete flexibility in deciding at how to dispose of the returned BEVs most profitably.
It can sell them then, in the USA or elsewhere if it wants, or re-battery them first, or just remove the packs and send the rest to the crusher, if it wants to.

Yup, it's a throwaway.

Every ICEV you've ever owned was and is a throwaway.

We have different definitions of throwaway. A car's a durable good, and I expect it to last me a minimum of 15 years barring major accident (my Forester just turned 15 today, and given its light usage I expect it to easily make it to 20 or 25, i.e. long enough to get me to a ZEV that meets my needs, assuming I even buy another car instead of opting for some other mobility solution). A throwaway implies that something is low cost, low value and is expected to last such a short period of time that you really don't care what happens to it, and will discard it without a second thought and replace it with something equally temporary.

edatoakrun wrote:Only BEVs have components with substantial second-life value, their battery packs.
In fact, in some ways it's depressing to think my 2011 LEAF pack could well survive me...

Depends on the price of new battery packs when the time comes to re-purpose them, along with the costs of doing so. I'm all for re-using equipment, but have serious doubts about the viability of ex-car battery packs given that Li-ion (and beyond) batteries are so immature, and still seeing relatively rapid price reductions. If weight, space and cost aren't serious factors, then maybe.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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