GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Via GCR:
2018 Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid: weekend drive review
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116239_2018-honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid-weekend-drive-review

. . . We first drove the plug-in Clarity in December, and now we've had a chance to spend four days with it, covering 570 miles.

By and large, our impressions of the Clarity Plug-In remain those we registered after our first drive event. Honda also thinks it's figured out how to explain the virtues of its plug-in hybrid; let's hope it's right.

It's a large mid-size four-door sedan with a very pleasant and quiet interior, the range rating is fairly realistic, and its plug-in hybrid powertrain delivers a remarkable mix of electric smoothness and low fuel consumption for a car this big.

We're not fans of the exterior styling, which stems from its origins as a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle. That led to its high, bulbous tail, which had to accommodate large, transverse high-pressure hydrogen fuel tanks. . . .

While December's first drive was in the temperate Napa Valley wine country, our four days with a white plug-in Clarity saw temperatures from 30 degrees F into the mid-50s F, including two unexpected snowstorms.

We were still able to get 30 to 48 miles out of a fully charged battery, depending on temperature but even more on speed, with highway speeds chewing up miles far faster than indicated range. . . .

Miscellaneous impressions from the drive included these:

    We continue to love the tan Ultrasuede interior fabric; we don't know how it'll age, but it's great to see and touch
    The big sedan suffers in handling and roadholding against its Accord sibling; it wallows and floats occasionally, while the Accord has sport-sedan handling
    While the engine will switch on if you floor it on an uphill road (then stay on for 10 minutes), it's easy to keep the Clarity in all-electric mode if the battery's got charge
    Under full power, the motorboat sound of the engine up front somewhere can get loud, but that was rare
    The regen paddles (left to increase, right to decrease) didn't seem as aggressive as the Volt's
    The charging door switch is almost invisible, on the lower dash at the height of the driver's knee
    We did get used to the looks, or learned to ignore them

Overall, we covered almost exactly 40 percent of our 507.4 miles on grid power, despite having not one but two 115-mile highway runs. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:24 am

Standard service for the Honda Clarity H2 FCV is expensive, hard to get and not covered by the lease payments:
Edmunds wrote:We expected the lease period of our long-term 2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell to come with some surprises. It delivered a good one last month. After getting our car back from the dealer for routine maintenance, we received a bill for $365.
Edmunds wrote:There are six Clarity-authorized service centers in the greater Los Angeles area, and none that we called stocked the right parts. One dealer estimated two to three weeks before it could get us in, but a service adviser at Norm Reeves Honda in Cerritos said there was a shipment inbound. We set up an appointment and dropped off the car a week later.

We picked up the car shortly afterward and received a bill for $364.93. Labor accounted for $75; the rest was parts.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

WetEV
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:57 pm

Edmunds wrote:We picked up the car shortly afterward and received a bill for $364.93. Labor accounted for $75; the rest was parts.


l have yet to pay that much in total on my Leaf. Wipers, washer fluid, tire rotations (free), TCU upgrade... Pretty sure is less than $300 all told.
WetEV
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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jlv
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The Crazy, Complicated Engineering Inside Honda's New Clarity Hybrid

Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:08 am

I loved the title of this wired article...
The Crazy, Complicated Engineering Inside Honda's New Clarity Hybrid
In the world of automotive propulsion, the hierarchy of complication goes something like this: Pure electric cars are simple; internal combustion engines, with many more parts and those explosions, are complex. Hybrids, which make the two work in concert, are extra complex.

Honda’s Clarity Plug-In Hybrid calls for a new category: so-complex-it-makes-your-head-spin.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
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RegGuheert
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:34 am

Here's the lead image from the article:

Image

Ha ha! That reminds me of cars of the mid-to-late-1970s and early 1980s when smog controls first came into being. The underhood scene was quite daunting. Reliability has improved greatly since that time, but simplicity is the hallmark of reliability. Simply put, reliability will be one of the many benefits that BEVs will hold over all comers. At the end of the day, there will be very little left for other technologies to leverage in order to compete.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

camasleaf
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:01 pm

I do not find the Clarity PHEV complicated to use. Even the drive train makes most sense of all hybrids, only one clutch from motor to wheels. Basically the car is an BEV and an ICE with a generator attached to it.

We have a 1000 miles round trip next month. I am glad we do not have to rent a less eficient car, or wait hours for charging.
2011 SLe 06/17/11 Over 82000 miles 66%SOH 14.6kWh
2018 Honda Clarity PHEV $120 gasoline in 5600 miles
5.7kW DC System

DarthPuppy
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:40 pm

Yeah, the higher complexity level is one reason I went ahead and got the extended warranty on this while I didn't when I bought the Leaf. Good idea to factor that into price comparisons. I fully expect the total cost of ownership to be definitely higher with the PHEV vs the BEV. But with my commute, the affordable BEV options aren't there yet. Leaf 2.0 is almost there, but then no room for battery degradation...
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DarthPuppy
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:44 pm

While this doesn't eliminate gas, it reduced it substantially. I'm now burning about 1/5 the gas I used to in my ICE for my weekly commute.
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue May 01, 2018 9:31 am

DarthPuppy wrote:While this doesn't eliminate gas, it reduced it substantially. I'm now burning about 1/5 the gas I used to in my ICE for my weekly commute.


Look at it this way - if 5 people buy a PHEV and each use 1/5th the gas, the net is the same as 4 people buying BEVs and the 5th continuing to drive on gas. Given that PHEVs are much more palatable to the non-enthusiast crowd, I think they are a wonderful thing!
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue May 01, 2018 6:20 pm

Via IEVS, "Alex on Autos" video review of the Clarity PHEV: https://insideevs.com/alex-on-autos-reviews-honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid/

. . . Alex seems extremely impressed with the Clarity Plug-in Hybrid. . . .

The Clarity Plug-in Hybrid comes with a 17 kWh battery pack, so it qualifies for the entire $7,500 U.S. federal EV tax credit.

At 47 miles of electric-only range (the closest competitor to the Chevrolet Volt), 110 MPGe, and 42 MPG, the EPA says it will cost you $4,250 less in “fuel” over five years than the average vehicle. This is a $1,000 savings over the same calculation for the Accord Hybrid.

The standard, gas-powered Accord doesn’t even compare when it comes to fuel savings, and it’s also priced fairly close to the Clarity when factoring in the rebate. Once you consider the fuel savings, the choice is really a no-brainer.

    Honda seems to be done playing it safe in the world of hybrids, proof of that is the new Clarity Plug In Hybrid which is the first no-compromises plug-in family sedan. With interior room and comfort like an Accord or Camry, 42 miles per gallon and nearly 50 miles of electric range, this is finally the car that will do everything your current sedan will do with a focus on fuel economy and lower operating costs. Oh, and you’ll get to drive in the HOV lane in some states too. What do I mean by no compromises? I mean an honest to goodness trunk, 212 horsepower, a wide and comfortable back seat, standard active safety tech and a price tag just $800 more than an Accord Hybrid (after tax credits). Why would you buy anything else? I’m not sure either.

The short answer to that last question is that you can't stand the looks, you don't qualify for the full rebate or you don't want a sedan. The Volt remains the closest competitor, IMO winning on looks, driving dynamics, slightly better range and flexibility, but losing on the fifth seat and rear seat headroom.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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