GRA
Posts: 6765
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Honda Clarity Fuel Cell thread

Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:59 pm

Via GCC:
Honda delivers first Clarity Fuel Cell to Japanese Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/03 ... honda.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Firetruck41
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Re: Official Honda Clarity Fuel Cell thread

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:22 am

Honda decides they actually want to sell the Charity... errr...Clarity. Will offer PHEV (40 mile battery range) and BEV variants.

http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/honda ... CAD590a51e
8/2015- New to me 12bar 2013 SV w/QC package and 37k miles

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Honda Clarity Fuel Cell thread

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:16 am

Firetruck41 wrote:Honda decides they actually want to sell the Charity... errr...Clarity. Will offer PHEV (40 mile battery range) and BEV variants.

http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/honda ... CAD590a51e

I recall commenting after a test drive of the gen 1 clarity a few years back, that Honda would have a pretty good BEV there if they just got rid of the fuel cell and put a battery pack in it...

Hopefully, the contrast between the Clarity BEV's convenient, reliable, cheap, and efficient fueling using electricity, in contrast to the comical inefficiencies of fueling the same car with hydrogen, will accelerate the demise of the FCV fantasy before too many more $ billions of public funds are thrown down that particular rat hole.

A few more details (none on the specifics of the BEV, though) here:

...The Clarity hydrogen fuel-cell hatchback set to go on sale late this year will be followed by an all-electric Clarity next year. A third model -- a Clarity plug-in hybrid -- will be launched later in 2017, Honda said Thursday...

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016042 ... d-variants
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Honda Clarity Fuel Cell thread

Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:12 am

Article reporting the priority to aero performance indicates the BEV version of the Clarity may be the most efficient BEV available in the US market, at freeway speeds.

And let's hope the BEV also has what every BEV should have, an integral AC supply port, as well as a DC port (CHAdeMO, preferably) allowing both Charging and discharging at any capable DC site.

What's behind the Clarity's quirky looks?

"Beautiful" the new Honda Clarity hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is not.

With its partially covered wheels, bulbous front end and a plethora of slits, vents and creases, the zero-emission car obviously is aiming for something other than good looks.

But Honda engineers and designers say there is method behind the madness of flourishes that make the Clarity the brand's most visually jarring design since the first-generation hybrid Insight.

Namely: aerodynamics...

Honda won't disclose the Clarity's drag coefficient. But Shugo Kamemoto, the assistant chief engineer in charge of aerodynamics, says it is the slickest sedan in Honda's lineup...

Two fuel flaps?
The car also has two fuel ports -- one on each back corner. One is for refilling the car's two hydrogen tanks. The other is actually an electrical outlet that allows owners to use the Clarity as a portable generator to power everything from barbecue grills to homes hit by blackouts...


http://www.autonews.com/article/2016042 ... irky-looks

GRA- how about changing the thread tile to reflect the multiple versions?
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:58 am

Still no clarity, IMO, as to whether the BEV version will be any more than another compliance model from Honda.

But that statement indicates Honda probably realized introduction of the Clarity only as a FCV was a hopeless proposition.

Honda brings clarity to electrification strategy

...An all-electric Clarity is due next year, followed by a plug-in hybrid version. While the designs of the latter two models have yet to be revealed, they'll have the same platform, five-seat-hatchback layout and design as the fuel cell model.

The setup gives Honda crucial flexibility to adjust production capacity quickly if demand jumps for one version over another...

Honda says it's too early to cite specific volume expectations. John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., predicted that in the runup to 2030 -- by which time Honda hopes to have two-thirds of its global sales from electrified vehicles -- the Clarity line could sell at near the volumes of the Accord.

"We are strongly committed to doing a volume business with Clarity," Mendel said...

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016042 ... n-strategy
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:36 pm

Via GCC:
Honda Clarity Fuel Cell EPA-rated with 366-mile range; longest of any ZEV
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/10 ... honda.html

. . . Honda will introduce the new 5-passenger, hydrogen-powered Clarity Fuel Cell sedan by the end of 2016, beginning with retail leasing to customers through its expanded network of 12 approved fuel cell vehicle dealerships located in select California markets.

The network includes six dealerships in Southern California, five in the Bay Area and one in Sacramento. Honda will further develop its dealer network as more hydrogen fueling stations become available.

The Clarity Fuel Cell fuel cell stack is 33% more compact than its predecessor with a 60% increase in power density compared to the outgoing Honda FCX Clarity. . . .

69/67/68 MPGe, per another article in GCR: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... nge-by-epa

FCEV range is essentially now equal to ICEs. Unfortunately, my inspection of a Clarity FCEV at the local National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day event on 10/08 showed that the trunk space was seriously compromised in the front half by a large hump over what I assume is a fuel tank. As the car's a sedan without folding seats, that will seriously impact its utility for many, although those more concerned with passenger than cargo capacity will prefer its 5 seats to the Mirai's 4.

Personally, I'd prefer the Tucson's space/utility with the Mirai's or Clarity's range. One more article on the same subject: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/24/hond ... v-366-mil/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 6765
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:42 pm

Via GCC:
Honda leasing 2017 Clarity Fuel Cell at $369/month, including fuel
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/11 ... honda.html

Honda announced a competitive introductory lease price of $369 a month for 36 months (plus tax) for the Clarity Fuel Cell sedan, which is coming to dealerships in California by the end of 2016. The lease requires $2,499 plus first month’s payment at lease signing (not including tax, registration or official fees). The lease terms include a mileage allowance of 20,000 per year, up to $15,000 of hydrogen fuel, up to 21 days of an Avis Luxury Rental in California, and 24/7 roadside assistance.

Retail leasing will be available to residents who live or work near Honda’s network of 12 approved fuel cell vehicle dealerships located in select California markets. This network includes six dealerships in Southern California, five in the Bay Area and one in Sacramento. Honda will further develop its dealer network as consumer friendly hydrogen fueling stations become available. . . .

So, $20/month more than the Mirai but 20k miles/yr., with the other terms the same as the Mirai.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 6765
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:49 pm

Via GCC:
First Honda Clarity Fuel Cell vehicles arrive in Europe as part of HyFIVE demo
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/12 ... honda.html

. . . The first six vehicles will be based with customers in London and Copenhagen as part of the Hydrogen for Innovative Vehicles (HyFIVE) demonstration project, partly funded by the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCHJU). . . .

The HyFIVE project aims to promote the awareness and adoption of fuel cell vehicle technology and infrastructure across Europe. Once deployment is completed, 185 fuel cell vehicles from five automotive manufacturers will be with private and corporate customers across Austria, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Sweden and UK. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 6765
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:28 pm

Via IEVS:
First Honda Clarity Fuel Cell Cars Delivered, Next Up An All-Electric and PHEV Clarity
http://insideevs.com/first-honda-clarit ... v-clarity/

. . .Interestingly, the first six cars were delivered to former Clarity FCX users from Southern California, so there will be no surprises as to what the fuel cell can (or can’t do).

Hopefully soon we will get the first reviews and insight of how the latest Japanese hydrogen fuel cells copes with California’s fuel cell infrastructure, as well as its on-road performance. . . .
Last edited by GRA on Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 6765
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:30 pm

Motor Trend:
2017 HONDA CLARITY FUEL CELL QUICK DRIVE REVIEW: FULL CIRCLE
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-hon ... ll-review/

. . . Put simply, if the Mirai drives like a Prius, the Clarity resembles an Accord. The Clarity exhibits a similar driving feel to other Honda sedans, from its balanced steering to the way it handles potholes and unruly road surfaces. Like what you’d expect from a vehicle with regenerative braking, the brakes aren’t celery-crisp. But there’s a clear engagement point when dipping into the friction brakes, a quality the Mirai lacks. . . .

I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but the Clarity has a lease allowance of 20k miles/year vs. 12k for the Mirai. So, while you pay $20/month extra compared to the Mirai , you are getting considerably more miles, assuming you don't exceed the $15k fuel budget. As a practical matter that would likely be hard to do - the Clarity is rated at 67 mpgE Hwy, and even if you knock it down to 60 mpgE, 20,000/60 is 333.33 kg. year, or 1,000kg. over 3 years. At the highest current price for H2 in California of $16.78/kg it would cost you $5,593.33 to drive 20k miles, $16,780 (minus Honda's $15k, so $1,780) to drive 60k. For $15k, you can drive 53,635 miles on Honda's dime if you get 60 mpgE. if you get a bit over 67.2 mpgE or more, you can do the whole 60k miles free. At lower fuel prices (lowest current in Ca. is apparently $12.85/kg, and the average is about$16.50/kg. as of end Q3 2016) there's little or no problem.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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