GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:04 pm

Honda managed to deliver 2 more Clarity FCVs in December, in addition to the 6 previously announced: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 85631.html

It will be interesting to see what if any effect this has on Mirai sales going forward, as they fill inventory - will it cannibalize them, or will they both increase/decrease?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:36 pm

Via ABG:
Honda has a super creepy ad for the Clarity Fuel Cell
http://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/08/cree ... -ad-video/

You know what's cute? Little kids. They're also a great reminder of why we want to leave behind a healthy planet for them to inherit. You know what's creepy? Floating heads, particularly those of children singing in eerie chorus.

This is the new one-minute TV spot for the 2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell. Shot in some sort of ethereal plane of existence where our weirdest nightmares are brought to life, the disembodied cherubs sing a haunting a cappella version of Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop. . . ."

It's part of a larger campaign for Honda's new hydrogen powered sedan . . . In addition to the TV ad above, Honda has published a series of short [horror films] "edu-tainment" videos, complete with more floating heads (which represent hydrogen). . . .

If you live in California . . . the ad will first air in the Los Angeles market during the Academy Awards on February 26. That will be followed by TV campaigns in the Clarity Fuel Cell's markets of LA, San Francisco, and Sacramento. In a clever move, the refueling video will also play on video screens above gas pumps at stations that also serve hydrogen fuel.

You can watch the video. This seems to be an action coordinated to some extent with Toyota's Mirai ad campaign, or maybe it's just that now that both cars are out and the fueling infrastructure is considered reasonably robust and adequate for initial growth, it makes sense to begin advertising.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:14 am

GRA wrote:You can watch the video. This seems to be an action coordinated to some extent with Toyota's Mirai ad campaign, or maybe it's just that now that both cars are out and the fueling infrastructure is considered reasonably robust and adequate for initial growth, it makes sense to begin advertising.
If it makes sense to advertise, then doesn't it make sense to come up with something that doesn't imply rapid oxidation of children? I agree with ABG: it's creepy.

Here's an ad from the same campaign, but with disembodied adult hydrogen molecules instead:



They actually make the car seem attractive if you can get past the Soylent Green aspect of these ads. In any case it's WAY better-looking than the Mirai (probably because I cannot make out exactly where the massive air intakes are located).
RegGuheert
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GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:29 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:You can watch the video. This seems to be an action coordinated to some extent with Toyota's Mirai ad campaign, or maybe it's just that now that both cars are out and the fueling infrastructure is considered reasonably robust and adequate for initial growth, it makes sense to begin advertising.
If it makes sense to advertise, then doesn't it make sense to come up with something that doesn't imply rapid oxidation of children? I agree with ABG: it's creepy.

Here's an ad from the same campaign, but with disembodied adult hydrogen molecules instead:



They actually make the car seem attractive if you can get past the Soylent Green aspect of these ads. In any case it's WAY better-looking than the Mirai (probably because I cannot make out exactly where the massive air intakes are located).

The intakes are in about the same place as the Mirai, just less prominent. As to looks, that it's better looking than the Mirai is true, albeit a low bar. Still, I've now degraded the Mirai to merely ugly rather than fugly, an appellation I now reserve for the Gen. 4 Prius (poss. excepting the Prime, which I have yet to see in the flesh), the Juke, and similar 'shock and awe' assaults on aesthetics. As for the ad itself, I admit it's weird, although it didn't cross the line for me into creepy. Companies are still having trouble trying to figure out how to advertise AFVs to the public beyond the green crowd (e.g. polar bears). The biggest problem I see with Toyota's billboard "Actually, it is rocket science" ad for the Mirai is that the car appears on it! You've already got to be pretty motivated to change to an AFV, if the first thing you know about a car is how ugly it is.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:19 pm

Via IEVS:
Report: All-Electric Honda Clarity To Have Just 80 Miles Of Range, Priced Around $35,000
http://insideevs.com/report-electric-ho ... ge-priced/

If accurate, we can write off the Clarity BEV now. I find it hard to believe that Honda would do something so stupid, so suspect this is disinformation. OTOH, I also didn't believe that Nissan would act in ways that were so antithetical to maintaining good relations with their early adopter customers, and boy was I wrong about that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:28 am

I basically wrote off Honda years ago. This is the last straw, and I can't imagine ever looking back. And I used to be a long-term Honda fan, having owned an S2000, Prelude Si, and Civic.

It sounds to me like the Clarity BEV is a conversion EV. Instead of starting with an ICEV, like the Fit EV, they started with a FCEV. But batteries and hydrogen tanks are very different shapes, so they probably are right; they probably can't fit a whole lot of batteries in the car.

Such a shame.
~Brian

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GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:49 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:I basically wrote off Honda years ago. This is the last straw, and I can't imagine ever looking back. And I used to be a long-term Honda fan, having owned an S2000, Prelude Si, and Civic.

It sounds to me like the Clarity BEV is a conversion EV. Instead of starting with an ICEV, like the Fit EV, they started with a FCEV. But batteries and hydrogen tanks are very different shapes, so they probably are right; they probably can't fit a whole lot of batteries in the car.

Such a shame.

From all I've read, the Clarity was always intended to be multi-powerplant capable, just as VW is doing. It's hard to believe that Honda couldn't fit a bigger battery in the car, but even if they can't, that doesn't explain how they think they can price it at $35k when competing BEVs with ca. 125 miles AER are priced below $30k. At $25k there might be a few takers. This is the Accord PHEV redux.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:10 am

GRA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:I basically wrote off Honda years ago. This is the last straw, and I can't imagine ever looking back. And I used to be a long-term Honda fan, having owned an S2000, Prelude Si, and Civic.

It sounds to me like the Clarity BEV is a conversion EV. Instead of starting with an ICEV, like the Fit EV, they started with a FCEV. But batteries and hydrogen tanks are very different shapes, so they probably are right; they probably can't fit a whole lot of batteries in the car.

Such a shame.

From all I've read, the Clarity was always intended to be multi-powerplant capable, just as VW is doing. It's hard to believe that Honda couldn't fit a bigger battery in the car, but even if they can't, that doesn't explain how they think they can price it at $35k when competing BEVs with ca. 125 miles AER are priced below $30k. At $25k there might be a few takers. This is the Accord PHEV redux.


That was originally my understanding too. However, compare it to the VW platform. VW seems to have done a much better job of building a shareable platform. Honda seems to have made a FCEV platform which they offer in a BEV variant.

Looking at this:
Image
(Source: InsideEVs.com)

There is a huge hydrogen cylinder behind the rear seats. I'm guessing that they don't use any of that space for batteries. Assuming they use batteries of similar density to those used in the Bolt. Eyeballing it, I would guess that they basically replaced the fuel cell stack under the front seats with batteries.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
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JasonA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:18 pm

Where's Jeremy when you need him? ;)

I mean, we can't have GRA as the ONLY H2 troll on here.
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GRA
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Re: Official Honda Clarity FCEV/BEV/PHEV thread

Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:18 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
GRA wrote:From all I've read, the Clarity was always intended to be multi-powerplant capable, just as VW is doing. It's hard to believe that Honda couldn't fit a bigger battery in the car, but even if they can't, that doesn't explain how they think they can price it at $35k when competing BEVs with ca. 125 miles AER are priced below $30k. At $25k there might be a few takers. This is the Accord PHEV redux.

That was originally my understanding too. However, compare it to the VW platform. VW seems to have done a much better job of building a shareable platform. Honda seems to have made a FCEV platform which they offer in a BEV variant.

Looking at this:
Image
(Source: InsideEVs.com)

There is a huge hydrogen cylinder behind the rear seats. I'm guessing that they don't use any of that space for batteries. Assuming they use batteries of similar density to those used in the Bolt. Eyeballing it, I would guess that they basically replaced the fuel cell stack under the front seats with batteries.

No, the FC stack and related components are all under the hood. I imagine what's under the front seats in the FCEV is the hybrid battery, to provide extra power for accel/storage for regen. All current FCEVs are FCHEVs. There looks to be plenty of room in the cargo area for more battery, at some sacrifice in depth to be sure (they'd need to do a much better job than Ford did - VW seems to have managed it with no problem), but still providing a much more practical space. When I looked at the Clarity back during Fleet Week in S.F., the small sized, awkwardly-shaped trunk would have been enough to rule it out immediately for me if I were interested.

The Mirai's trunk is pretty limited by the tank too, but it's slightly better. However, neither is as good as the Tucson FCEV, which appears to be identical to the ICE version, admittedly with the smallest range of the current FCEVs as well. OTOH, with rapid refueling range isn't as critical, and it's easier to trade off between the two as long as the fueling infrastructure's dense enough to avoid problems. At this stage, that's only true in California around the Bay Area and L.A., and a limited issue between the Bay Area and Tahoe. Once there are H2 stations spaced no more than 1/2 max. range apart (in all conditions, so say 33-40% of max. range), that issue disappears. Of course, that assumes that we'll get to that point.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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