GetOffYourGas
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A real Tesla Threat?

Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:28 pm

lorenfb wrote:But it will reduce the Tesla share of the MS type market!


Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree. This car is likely to be priced at twice what the Model S / X are. It will be a toy for the rich, and it will sell well as such. Many people stretch their finances to afford a Model S. I don't see the same happening for this car.

It's also a sports car rather than a family sedan, so a different demographic.

lorenfb wrote:You and others seem to forget about the Porsche parent company, i.e. VW. The Misson E technology will
easily be scaled and transferred to any potential Model E type product VW decides to market. Do you and
others really think that ANY OEM automotive company is going to ignore the potential of the Model E market,
i.e. if it really materializes? The technology will be there for all to utilize. Tesla will have no real advantage
nor any key ecosystem. Yes, the SC provides a short term advantage, but it can be easily replicated.


I'm not forgetting VW, just not talking about them. I don't think the Mission E is a real threat, although I agree it could be indicative of things to come. With the latest diesel scandals, VW has even more reason to enter the EV market in force. So you're right, they may compete strongly with the Model III, but again not with the Mission E.


lorenfb wrote:.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limit production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?


You mean the factory that's ahead of schedule? I'd say it's doing just fine.


http://insideevs.com/tesla-reports-q3-2015-earnings/
During Q3 Tesla began “production of Tesla Energy products”
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lorenfb
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A real Tesla Threat?

Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:09 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree. This car is likely to be priced at twice what the Model S / X are. It will be a toy for the rich, and it will sell well as such. Many people stretch their finances to afford a Model S. I don't see the same happening for this car. It's also a sports car rather than a family sedan, so a different demographic.


Right, a toy for the rich as is the Tesla MS. Many will consider the Mission E a family vehicle as they do
the Panamera with various models/entry levels.

GetOffYourGas wrote:I'm not forgetting VW, just not talking about them. I don't think the Mission E is a real threat, although I agree it could be indicative of things to come. With the latest diesel scandals, VW has even more reason to enter the EV market in force. So you're right, they may compete strongly with the Model III, but again not with the Mission E.


Tesla is still essentially a one product company, e.g. Model X is basically a MS with double hinged doors and
an additional seat, producing a very small volume and unprofitable product, and as such is vulnerable
to high end vehicles from either Porsche/Audi (announced competitive products) or Mercedes Benz
who will most likely enter the high end luxury BEV market.

lorenfb wrote:.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limited production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?


GetOffYourGas wrote:You mean the factory that's ahead of schedule? I'd say it's doing just fine.
http://insideevs.com/tesla-reports-q3-2015-earnings/


Read the info more closely, as it just relates to the Powerwall product and without any indication
of what the production volume is. It's the typical hyperbole as usual from Musk. Musk "plays"
with volume numbers, e.g. remember the original 2015 guidance of 55K and revised down.
Also, you failed to discuss the Panasonic $2.5B commitment.

Bottom Line: Tesla will NOT be without major competitors and threats in the near future.

smkettner
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A 300 mile EV

Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:08 am

Competition at this level will only be a boost for Tesla and EVs in general.
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lorenfb
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A 300 mile EV

Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:47 pm


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keydiver
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A real Tesla Threat?

Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:06 am

lorenfb wrote:But it will reduce the Tesla share of the MS type market!


You seem to be forgetting that Tesla's endgame is NOT the S, or even the X. Elon's plan from the beginning was to sell enough Roadsters, S models, and X models just to raise the cash to build the Gigafactory and the SuperCharger network, so everything will be in place when they start manufacturing the Model 3. How is ANY other car manufacturer going to compete (by 2018) against a fully functioning Li-ion factory pumping out millions of low-cost batteries, and a nationwide network of FREE charging stations?? IMO, the car they should be designing is competition to the Model 3. Anyone can design a high end, limited production, expensive EV. But, how many can make an EV for the masses, >200 mile range, the size of a 3-series, $35,000, with access to a reliable charging network? Even if Porsche/VW/BMW could build a $35,000 EV by 2018, which manufacturer would you rather buy from, a relative newcomer to EV's, with no charging network, or the one that has been building best-in-class EV's since 2008, and has shown their commitment to buiding the best, most reliable charging network from one end of the US to the other? Nissan's experience has proven to me that relying on the government or local businesses to provide a charging infrastructure is a complete failure. In the 4 years that I have owned my Leaf, only ONE charging station has been built within driving distance of my house. So, what are the other EV entries going to do? How long would it take them to build an SC network?

lorenfb wrote:Right, a toy for the rich as is the Tesla MS.


You must pardon me if I take offence to that statement, as I am very far from being "rich", and my 70D is not "a toy". It was quite a stretch for me to make the decision to spend >$70,000 for a car, and many other Model S owners that I have talked to felt the same way. I really don't understand your hatred for Tesla and Musk, its like you WANT them to fail. :?
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lorenfb
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A real Tesla Threat?

Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:33 pm

keydiver wrote:You seem to be forgetting that Tesla's endgame is NOT the S, or even the X. Elon's plan from the beginning was to sell enough Roadsters, S models, and X models just to raise the cash to build the Gigafactory and the SuperCharger network, so everything will be in place when they start manufacturing the Model 3.


Not really. Seems you have not been following the 'bottom line' financial reports from Tesla, i.e. no cash
flow has been generated even though the gross profit per vehicle is close to 20%. They either sell bonds
or issue more stock to generate cash.

keydiver wrote:How is ANY other car manufacturer going to compete (by 2018) against a fully functioning Li-ion factory pumping out millions of low-cost batteries, and a nationwide network of FREE charging stations?? IMO, the car they should be designing is competition to the Model 3. Anyone can design a high end, limited production, expensive EV. But, how many can make an EV for the masses, >200 mile range, the size of a 3-series, $35,000, with access to a reliable charging network?


We'll have to wait and see whether Model 3 happens, i.e. hopefully a much better delivery schedule than
the Model X has been.

lorenfb wrote:Right, a toy for the rich as is the Tesla MS.


keydiver wrote:You must pardon me if I take offence to that statement, as I am very far from being "rich", and my 70D is not "a toy". It was quite a stretch for me to make the decision to spend >$70,000 for a car, and many other Model S owners that I have talked to felt the same way. I really don't understand your hatred for Tesla and Musk, its like you WANT them to fail. :?


One can't really rationalize the purchase of a MS, nor any luxury vehicle, based on economics. Just as one
can't justify the purchase of a Rolex watch based on any economic analysis or functionality. So like many
in society, having expensive toys is their form of an expression of wealth. You and many on this forum
are most likely exceptions to this for a number of reasons, e.g. "clean vehicle", understand and like the
BEV technology, & etc.

lorenfb
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A real Tesla Threat?

Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:55 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
lorenfb wrote:.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limit production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?


You mean the factory that's ahead of schedule? I'd say it's doing just fine.


More info about how well (?) the Giga is doing:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3867336-teslas-gigafactory-can-just-call-whole-thing?source=email_rt_article_readmore&auth_param=1adagi:1bb7ql9:4667001fec58329e2b0d52d89a630764&uprof=44&dr=1#alt3

lorenfb
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A 300 mile EV

Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:44 pm


lorenfb
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A 300 mile EV

Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:30 am


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mwalsh
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Re: Porsche "Misson E" - A 300 mile EV

Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Ooh! I do like that solar pylon. Except for that one panel that doesn't seem to match the others.
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