Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Nothing is a threat until it is actually in production. Otherwise, my ExcellentCar9000 with 10,000 miles of range per charge, and the ability to charge in 10 seconds would be a real threat to Tesla.

Oh, at Betteridge's Law of Headlines is in full play here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
 
aarond12 said:
Nothing is a threat until it is actually in production. Otherwise, my ExcellentCar9000 with 10,000 miles of range per charge, and the ability to charge in 10 seconds would be a real threat to Tesla.

Oh, at Betteridge's Law of Headlines is in full play here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

Doubt Tesla would consider your application for a strategic marketing position.
You might want to update your LinkedIn info if that's your background.

There's no real "barrier to entry" for any automotive OEM to challenge Tesla, e.g. the technology is
widely available to all and no one has any exclusive 'rent'. It's only the potential market size that limits
who enters the BEV market. It's naive for any present BEV 'player' to not consider a potential threat
from any ICE vehicle OEM not presently in the BEV market or any proposed future vehicle technology
e.g. FCEV..
 
To answer the title/question, no. They are trying to prepare for production in 2020, by then Tesla will have more/new/better/cheaper/etc. offerings, so I think Tesla will probably do fine for quite some time.
 
If the Mission E drives like a Porsche, it will sell well. However, that's far from being a threat to Tesla. Both of these vehicles can coexist, and even grow the market.

Tesla isn't banking on Model S / X sales sustaining the company. They are banking on the Model III doing that. And their M.O. is to make the best possible car for the class / price. The Model III is aimed at BMW 3-series. If BMW created a 3-series EV, I think it would be more of a threat to Tesla than the Mission E. And yet, even that car would just validate Tesla's presence.

Instead of looking for Tesla "Threats", we should be looking for competitors which can coexists. In turn, each forces the other to improve.
 
I remember reading this a little bit ago and at that point I thought Porsche was thinking of making another supercharger-esque connector. Not SAE, not CHAdeMO, not SuperCharger, but something else that is like 800VDC and can do the 80% charge of the Mission-E in a really low amount of time.

And while that is awesome, if it is not backwards compatible with something else it might not adopt well. We have quite a few Porsche dealerships around here but even if each of them were mandated to install one of these new charging stations it would be a hassle to go any real distance since they are generally in the centers of town.

And as already mentioned by the time it is produced (if ever really) there will have already been another generation of Tesla or two. A 5 year design cycle on a brand new car is shorter than average nowadays. We have some schematics at my company now designing component ICs for 2022 to 2024 MY vehicles...
 
don't have to read the article (which probably 90% BS and speculation anyway) to answer the question which is no. they will just carve out a niche in the luxury EV market. how big? well that is up to them but they have never had a huge slice of any market and doubtful that anything is going to change but i guess we shall find out "soon" enough...
 
I'd like to see a lot of threats to Tesla in the future! :D
Elon does too. So far, none have materialized. This is my point -- until it materializes, it's not a real threat. This doesn't mean Tesla and others don't notice what other manufacturers are doing and try and stay ahead of them. Of course they do!

I'm leaving my LinkedIn profile as-is. :mrgreen:
 
GetOffYourGas said:
If the Mission E drives like a Porsche, it will sell well. However, that's far from being a threat to Tesla. Both of these vehicles can coexist, and even grow the market.

But it will reduce the Tesla share of the MS type market!

GetOffYourGas said:
Tesla isn't banking on Model S / X sales sustaining the company. They are banking on the Model III doing that. And their M.O. is to make the best possible car for the class / price. The Model III is aimed at BMW 3-series. If BMW created a 3-series EV, I think it would be more of a threat to Tesla than the Mission E. And yet, even that car would just validate Tesla's presence.

You and others seem to forget about the Porsche parent company, i.e. VW. The Misson E technology will
easily be scaled and transferred to any potential Model E type product VW decides to market. Do you and
others really think that ANY OEM automotive company is going to ignore the potential of the Model E market,
i.e. if it really materializes? The technology will be there for all to utilize. Tesla will have no real advantage
nor any key ecosystem. Yes, the SC provides a short term advantage, but it can be easily replicated.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limit production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?
 
lorenfb said:
But it will reduce the Tesla share of the MS type market!

Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree. This car is likely to be priced at twice what the Model S / X are. It will be a toy for the rich, and it will sell well as such. Many people stretch their finances to afford a Model S. I don't see the same happening for this car.

It's also a sports car rather than a family sedan, so a different demographic.

lorenfb said:
You and others seem to forget about the Porsche parent company, i.e. VW. The Misson E technology will
easily be scaled and transferred to any potential Model E type product VW decides to market. Do you and
others really think that ANY OEM automotive company is going to ignore the potential of the Model E market,
i.e. if it really materializes? The technology will be there for all to utilize. Tesla will have no real advantage
nor any key ecosystem. Yes, the SC provides a short term advantage, but it can be easily replicated.

I'm not forgetting VW, just not talking about them. I don't think the Mission E is a real threat, although I agree it could be indicative of things to come. With the latest diesel scandals, VW has even more reason to enter the EV market in force. So you're right, they may compete strongly with the Model III, but again not with the Mission E.


lorenfb said:
.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limit production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?

You mean the factory that's ahead of schedule? I'd say it's doing just fine.


http://insideevs.com/tesla-reports-q3-2015-earnings/
During Q3 Tesla began “production of Tesla Energy products”
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Meh, we'll have to agree to disagree. This car is likely to be priced at twice what the Model S / X are. It will be a toy for the rich, and it will sell well as such. Many people stretch their finances to afford a Model S. I don't see the same happening for this car. It's also a sports car rather than a family sedan, so a different demographic.

Right, a toy for the rich as is the Tesla MS. Many will consider the Mission E a family vehicle as they do
the Panamera with various models/entry levels.

GetOffYourGas said:
I'm not forgetting VW, just not talking about them. I don't think the Mission E is a real threat, although I agree it could be indicative of things to come. With the latest diesel scandals, VW has even more reason to enter the EV market in force. So you're right, they may compete strongly with the Model III, but again not with the Mission E.

Tesla is still essentially a one product company, e.g. Model X is basically a MS with double hinged doors and
an additional seat, producing a very small volume and unprofitable product, and as such is vulnerable
to high end vehicles from either Porsche/Audi (announced competitive products) or Mercedes Benz
who will most likely enter the high end luxury BEV market.

lorenfb said:
.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limited production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?

GetOffYourGas said:
You mean the factory that's ahead of schedule? I'd say it's doing just fine.
http://insideevs.com/tesla-reports-q3-2015-earnings/

Read the info more closely, as it just relates to the Powerwall product and without any indication
of what the production volume is. It's the typical hyperbole as usual from Musk. Musk "plays"
with volume numbers, e.g. remember the original 2015 guidance of 55K and revised down.
Also, you failed to discuss the Panasonic $2.5B commitment.

Bottom Line: Tesla will NOT be without major competitors and threats in the near future.
 
lorenfb said:
But it will reduce the Tesla share of the MS type market!

You seem to be forgetting that Tesla's endgame is NOT the S, or even the X. Elon's plan from the beginning was to sell enough Roadsters, S models, and X models just to raise the cash to build the Gigafactory and the SuperCharger network, so everything will be in place when they start manufacturing the Model 3. How is ANY other car manufacturer going to compete (by 2018) against a fully functioning Li-ion factory pumping out millions of low-cost batteries, and a nationwide network of FREE charging stations?? IMO, the car they should be designing is competition to the Model 3. Anyone can design a high end, limited production, expensive EV. But, how many can make an EV for the masses, >200 mile range, the size of a 3-series, $35,000, with access to a reliable charging network? Even if Porsche/VW/BMW could build a $35,000 EV by 2018, which manufacturer would you rather buy from, a relative newcomer to EV's, with no charging network, or the one that has been building best-in-class EV's since 2008, and has shown their commitment to buiding the best, most reliable charging network from one end of the US to the other? Nissan's experience has proven to me that relying on the government or local businesses to provide a charging infrastructure is a complete failure. In the 4 years that I have owned my Leaf, only ONE charging station has been built within driving distance of my house. So, what are the other EV entries going to do? How long would it take them to build an SC network?

lorenfb said:
Right, a toy for the rich as is the Tesla MS.

You must pardon me if I take offence to that statement, as I am very far from being "rich", and my 70D is not "a toy". It was quite a stretch for me to make the decision to spend >$70,000 for a car, and many other Model S owners that I have talked to felt the same way. I really don't understand your hatred for Tesla and Musk, its like you WANT them to fail. :?
 
keydiver said:
You seem to be forgetting that Tesla's endgame is NOT the S, or even the X. Elon's plan from the beginning was to sell enough Roadsters, S models, and X models just to raise the cash to build the Gigafactory and the SuperCharger network, so everything will be in place when they start manufacturing the Model 3.

Not really. Seems you have not been following the 'bottom line' financial reports from Tesla, i.e. no cash
flow has been generated even though the gross profit per vehicle is close to 20%. They either sell bonds
or issue more stock to generate cash.

keydiver said:
How is ANY other car manufacturer going to compete (by 2018) against a fully functioning Li-ion factory pumping out millions of low-cost batteries, and a nationwide network of FREE charging stations?? IMO, the car they should be designing is competition to the Model 3. Anyone can design a high end, limited production, expensive EV. But, how many can make an EV for the masses, >200 mile range, the size of a 3-series, $35,000, with access to a reliable charging network?

We'll have to wait and see whether Model 3 happens, i.e. hopefully a much better delivery schedule than
the Model X has been.

lorenfb said:
Right, a toy for the rich as is the Tesla MS.

keydiver said:
You must pardon me if I take offence to that statement, as I am very far from being "rich", and my 70D is not "a toy". It was quite a stretch for me to make the decision to spend >$70,000 for a car, and many other Model S owners that I have talked to felt the same way. I really don't understand your hatred for Tesla and Musk, its like you WANT them to fail. :?

One can't really rationalize the purchase of a MS, nor any luxury vehicle, based on economics. Just as one
can't justify the purchase of a Rolex watch based on any economic analysis or functionality. So like many
in society, having expensive toys is their form of an expression of wealth. You and many on this forum
are most likely exceptions to this for a number of reasons, e.g. "clean vehicle", understand and like the
BEV technology, & etc.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
lorenfb said:
.
By the way, how's that Giga factory doing? You would think at this point in time it would be producing
a limit production of batteries to supplement Panasonic's. Where's the balance of Panasonic's $2.5B it
was to provide for Giga?

You mean the factory that's ahead of schedule? I'd say it's doing just fine.

More info about how well (?) the Giga is doing:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/386...1fec58329e2b0d52d89a630764&uprof=44&dr=1#alt3
 
Back
Top