GRA
Posts: 10715
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Via IEVS:
Hyundai Says Next Year’s Ioniq Electric Will Get A Range Boost
https://insideevs.com/next-year-hyundai ... ore-range/
. . . So Hyundai is planning to increase the size of the Ioniq Electric’s battery pack next year, most likely with the 2020 model. “The Ioniq’s range will improve at the model-year change. It will get bigger,” said Gil Castillo, Hyundai’s senior group manager for alternative vehicle strategy, during our drive of the 258-mile Kona Electric last week.

“It will be a nice improvement but not like the Kona’s range,” said Castillo. . . .
Let the guessing begin. I'll ante with 160 miles.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2040
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:51 am

GRA wrote: Let the guessing begin. I'll ante with 160 miles.
I'll play. 175 miles.

The Hyundai Kona will come with either 39kWh and 64kWh battery options. I'll make a guess that they use the 39kWh battery, formatted to fit the Ioniq's battery case. The Leaf gets 151 miles with 40kWh, but the Ioniq is about 20% more efficient.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

Leaf15
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Hyundai Ioniq BEV mini review.

Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:37 am

Just came back from Hyundai dealer after test drive of 2019 Ionic basic model. As salesperson was busy with other buyer, so we got the car for ourselves and battery at 25%. Fist thing I did - found DC charger - EVGO DC charger. Tried to use it with credit card - got error communicating with car on charger, so is the car complained about charger. Ok started again, oops could not disconnect DC charger cable from Ionic - it is locked! Nothing works! Bolt owner next to the charger, came out to help with the troubles. No go. Should I call dealer and tell him I am stuck at the charger with cable impossible to disconnect? Just humiliating even. Then finally, with out any hope left I pressed button in between charger door and Charge timer buttons. Showing charging symbol and "Auto" with yellow status LED. Later, I found explanation in User Manual and it was the right thing to do to allow automatic lock/nlock when charging starts/stops. What a relieve! He was able to remove the cable! So started again, connected the cable, check; about to swipe CC, but other EV driver just used his EVGo RF card and this time he presses tiny green "start" button on the charger, Yey! It is charging at mind blowing 100A. There goes 35, 45, 55, 65, 70, 80 still 100A, 85% slowed to 50A, 90% - 47A, 92% - 36A. Finally a few minutes later it stopped at 95% and 129 Miles estimate. Total charging time 25%->95% ~40 mins (the status screen on charger only lasted for 30secs and was reset for new charge, so I could not take picture of final charging stats). Just crazy charging rates for such a small battery with no any slow down up to 80%, figures. It was good luck I picked this EVGo charger, I think I am the first one to confirm 100A charge rates on Ionic EV is working and it is working exceptionally well. Well done Hyundai! So comes the driving test on Route 97 at excruciating 65 mph on cruise control, lol. If you are driving Leaf you know what is going to happen to GOM estimates and efficiency indicator at 65 mph even in the summer - they would start falling like dead fly. I drove in "normal" (not "eco") driving mode with heat off because it was basic model (without heat pump) and it would mess up my test. Anyway, to my amazement none of this happened! GOM was a few miles behind (good news) of actual distance traveled and efficiency was steady climbing from initial 4.0 miles/kWh (explains why GOM was not in the hurry to drop remaining range). It seems to defy gravity and physics (lol) and everything I knew about EV and highway drag. To make it short: I finished 33.2 miles Route 97 round trip with efficiency indicator steady climbing from 4.0 to 4.6 miles/kWh and range estimator at 102 miles (from 129 after charge).

In contrast, I drove my Leaf to Wawa this morning and battery went from 31% to 23% during 2.4 miles round trip on the flat local road below 35mph. The heater was on, but for EV sake - it is only 1 kWh x 5 minutes. WTF? 8% battery to drive 2.4 miles? 1.6 kWh for 2.4 Miles? 1.5 m/kWh? Just $$$$$ ridiculous. Some excuse - it was below freezing, so battery was cold, but still. Above freezing it is way better though. I still have 4.0 miles/kWh on it, just below freezing all instrumentation, behavior becomes not very stable: GOM becomes very pessimistic, yet battery level is holding up, but at the end it gives up too and starts to catch up with GOM pessimism.

Just to sum up: Hyundai 2019 Ionic Limited (heat pump) will deliver rated 125 miles in cold weather with heater on while driving 65 mph, guaranteed (considering the fact it was not fully charged (95%), and it is safe to assume no more than 5% ~ 1.35 KWh extra energy would be used by heat pump during 2 hours of 65 mph driving). In summer, it will get @ 5.5 to 6.5 miles/kWh (plenty of owner data to support it) over 150 miles of range. No need to take my word on it, here is a post of the actual owner from ionic forum:
Nov 19, 2018 #5
Ruben Mamer Cruz
New Member
For My pure Ionic EV one full charge shows 152 miles but with the regeneration settings I get anywhere from 172 to 185, So cal Edison charges $0.16 per Kw

Very comfortable inside in front and rear. And, it is better on the back than Kona (no kidding), Tesla 3 rear seat is just a joke. Regen is crazy strong at level 3 for such small battery, comparable to Bolt and 40kWh Leaf in e-pedal mode, but it would not stop completely as it switches to creep mode at very low speed. It would get to complete stop/resume when in TACC in stop-and-go traffic.

Ah, and one more thing. First one we test drove was also basic with only 16% battery (16 miles of range, it later moved up to 19 miles after I disabled heater) and heater on. I was wondering why it does not get over 4.2 m/kWh. Once checked energy consumption screen, heater was sucking over 5 kWh. Nope, thanks, off it goes. Efficiency started to climb as it should on this car. Once we got at the highway speeds it drove 3-4 miles, it issued low battery alert (like I did not know it would happen, but I wanted to see what this car does when battery gets really low). We turned around and headed back to the dealership to charge, after few more miles it announced reduced power output mode is active and speed was reduced to about 50 mph. Not sure it forced it or it was simply result of re-mapping of accelerator response when in reduced power mode, so same accelerator level will cause speed reduction. In any case, this change felt natural. We did not get any more warnings or instrumentation freaking out (like Leaf showing --- and not displaying anything at all). Once off the highway, it did not affect the rest of the trip as it was ~ 35mph in the city. Got back with 5 miles left to spare. The lesson learned: you could run it all the way to 0% without any drama, another words you get the entire range to drive. It is just too risky and foolish, like situations with ICE cars on the side of the road with empty tanks we see time-to-time, rare but some folks manage to do it even on ICE cars. Sales person put it on "super charger" that happened to be just a level 2 charger and after I saw it and told him it will take upto 4 hours - he offered another one with 25%. The rest you already know ;)

BTW, Bolt has 239 miles range, but it will disable drivetrain at 25 miles left (below freezing)! What? It is like a middle life crisis for Leaf. So what is the real range? Ah. Hyundai offers lifetime warranty on the all Ionics batteries (hybrids and EV). I am starting to believe, their engineers designed battery with this bold warranty in mind. So based on charging and low battery car characteristics: all advertised 27kWh is fully accessible when you get to drive the car without any dramas. The reason for it may be unusually large safety buffers. Based on my observation EV batteries usually have 5-8% top and bottom buffers, but Ionic has, possibly, 10-15% buffers on top and bottom end. So the real battery capacity is in ball pack of 32-34kWh. Add on top of it full battery temperature management and it should guarantee very long battery durability. So main concerns with EV is kind of addressed, so owner should not worry about battery and the car should resell pretty well too. BTW, Ionic (with heat pump) battery heater is probably the most efficient on the market as it uses heat pump shared with HVAC, all other EV are using resistive heater and some manufacturers avoid using it in normal circumstances as it will eat way too much energy and using it only as emergency heaters to prevent battery freezing. This tactic sucks big time as it decimates charging rates on DC chargers in cold weather.

Continued:

It rides better than Leaf for sure. Steering was precise and responsive. This is one of not many cars with almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution (with Bjørn Nyland behind wheel alone, with me and my wife it most likely become 52/48) and those are rear drive usually. I was curious how front wheel drive with this weight distribution would perform. The ride is compliant, not bouncy and boy they have nasty pot holes on Route 97. The powertrain is well balanced. The acceleration is linear and it accelerates to 65 mph without any hesitation. It is not going to twist your guts, but it drives just like other middle size ICE cars around (non V6), just torque-ish and quiet. 0-60 mph, if I recall correctly, is ~ 8 secs. I think traction motor power is perfectly matches on this car. In contrast, Kona/Niro motor is too powerful, causing oversteer and front tires to squeal even in "eco" mode and light foot. Both can not effectively transfer the torque as tires are small and vehicles are front heavy.

Basic trim' sound system is surprisingly good and bluetooth integration worked great. Separate woofers and tweeters and plenty of low extension - it does boom. The mirrors adjustment is more than enough to get "360" view, they also have blind spot monitor built-in. Real horns even on basic model (no meep meep).

I would go for basic model in hot/worm places, it would make this car a real bargain. But I need heater, so heat pump calls for Limited, but is also has a lot more features for driver comfort like TACC, LDS, Cross Traffic Alert, Proximity Alerts (front/rear), power driver ac/heated seat with memory, sunroof (really?), wireless phone charger and etc. Rear view mirror on basic does not have garage remote buttons and compass, and not self dimming, but it has 3 buttons for SOS, GPS request and BlueLink. It makes it more difficult to replace with self dimming one with garage remote buttons as none of those special buttons would be present, so you would loose some features if you decide to upgrade.

Touch screen is very responsive - no delays. Basic model does not have GPS navigation, but it has LTE connectivity and GPS sensor, blue link is available on all cars (you can locate car on the map with app and do all the things similar to other car apps). As a benefit, It has charging station info handy and updated in real time (the distance to the nearest charger and list of near by chargers). I am pretty sure it can pass navigation destination to Google or Apple phone through integration. Good turning radius, I missed turn and did very tight U-Turn without any difficulties and at first attempt.

My wife liked it too and actually gave me a green light for swap. No more dragging behind trucks and smelling diesel exhaust, no more driving below posted speed limits, cannot come sooner (Monday)

If Ionic 2020 gets 38.3 kWh battery, as they speculating, it will compete with Leaf e+plus as it would get into 200 miles real range on the highway. Right now - it competes with Leaf 40 kWh on highway. Actually, European range is 150 miles for both Ionic 27 kWh and Leaf 40 kWh.

For anybody interested to know what is inside of Ionic, the best source of info is parts web sites like this one https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/parts- ... m=37371A11. You would get more info than any reviewer or blogger would ever tell you about any car. Battery is fully serviceable, any part including different cell modules could be purchased and replaced. It also shows how battery heating/cooling is engineered and so is a whole car in greatest details ever.

Do not get me wrong, I like(d) my Leaf. I bought it because of 80 miles would be enough for me, but I miscalculated the discrepancy in rated and real range, highway speeds and cold weather effect. Used Leaf value is impossible to beat, though. There is nothing in this price range. For city, the Leaf is very good car, but if your range involves prolonged highway driving - you need to look elsewhere or accept the real range would be cut by 20% or more. Leaf is great for commute even on highway if it is not too long. I needed to make 70 miles trip once a week and I really want to use EV for it as it would double cost savings, but most of it (95%) is on the highway, so not a chance to do it with absolute certainty - I would need en-route charging at Level 2 (mine has no DC option and there is no DC chargers alone the route anyway), so it would add at least an hour to the trip to get a 10 miles buffer. I tried it once, and it was a complete nightmare as I just got the car and did not know anything about chargers locations or PlugShare and other Apps.
Last edited by Leaf15 on Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

Leaf15
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Hyundai Ioniq EV - Hello there!

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:52 pm

Successful swap today! Lots of negotiation work, but I think I managed to get very good deal on the car considering the fact an average buyers paid $50 over MSRP :lol: What? Is it really that hard to get in some places? Thanks to technical error in accepting deal on dealer side, I was able to score another lovely discount to offset lower than desired trade-in offer. At the end, trade-in was only $200 behind my target. That was piece of work, but I got new 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited. On the way back, I stopped by one of many free DC chargers and could not wait to confirm charging speed to mach my previous record of 100A. This time I knew how to do it right and after patiently awaiting about 20 seconds for handshake to complete I got another surprise! 2019 Ionic EV Limited delivered 120A charging current all the way to 80%. Wow! Today was 7F degree colder (33F, just above freezing point) compared when I got 100A few days ago on EVGo. Both chargers look the same and have same user interface.

This car is something else. Usually, after purchasing the vehicle expectations end up in downhill trajectory going forward. This car just does the opposite, it just keeps delivering above expectations. After realizing how bad things get for EV cars in the winter - I was about to put big bold cross on all EVs. Thanks to Ionic, I am an EV believer again!

The Limited trim is huge difference from basic, very sophisticated. Just small things like door handles radiate "unapologetically" the attention to details and high level of craftsmanship on Limited edition. While charging outside in good light, I noticed the charger door is quite thick and feels very light. The first guess would be: "Oh my God they used cheap plastic, aha they cheated on me!", but after close examination it was extruded aluminum. Hm, I do not recall any car maker to go that far to reduce the weight despite undoubtedly higher cost. I do not know, may be Hyundai had "bean counters" assigned to this project on long vacation or busy with something else while this car was designed and approved for production. I will get to it a bit later. Now, just need to recover from tough day.

Maryland is strange EV place, I like this state btw, lots of public and absolutely free charing infrastructure, but I hardly witnessed any EV on the lonely DC chargers stalls alone side of Route 95 and chargers are spaced ~20 miles apart and at same places as gas stations and rest areas are. Only few EVs on the road: 2 x Tesla 3 , 1 x Model S on Super charger, 1 x Bolt (white) , 1 x Bolt (white) at charger on 95, 1 x Bolt at EVGo charger. We have way more EVs in eastern PA and almost no DC chargers, what an irony.

Unlike Tesla and may be other actively managed battery EVs, I do not observe in Ionic any loss in battery capacity or millage while parked for second day now and remote App status inquiries do not have any effect on battery discharge. BTW, at the dealer, my future Ionic spent probably few month outside, waiting for me to buy it and it seems all Ionics EV come with 25% battery SOC from factory and it did not loose any of it.

And like in any EV these days the 12V 40Ah Lead battery sucks. Will upgrade to12V 40Ah LiFePO4 battery. My 12V battery was reading 12V that would be 60% while discharging. I connected my maintenance charger and left for a day. I came back home, the voltage was over 14V, but the charger never switched to the floating mode. This could mean 2 things - battery is weak or parasitic draw by the car. I left hood open as panels fit is very tight and I did not want to pinch the wires. On some cars (with hood sensor) it may prevent car from getting to sleep. I decided to close the hood to check this theory. Indeed the charger immediately switched to the float mode the moment I closed the hood. So if you do not want your 12 V battery to be discharged more than usual, make sure everything is closed, so car will go into deep sleep.
Last edited by Leaf15 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 13 times in total.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

Leaf15
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Hyundai Ioniq BEV, Maintenance

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 am

Hyundai Ionic Electric maintenance schedule:

Scheduled Maintenance | Normal Usage | Severe Usage*
Tire Rotation | Perform 5,000 | Perform 5,000
Climate Control Air Filter (for Evaporator and Blower Unit) | Replace 15,000 | Replace More Frequently
Air Conditioning Refrigerant | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect Same As Normal
Brake Hoses & Lines | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect Same As Normal
Drive Shafts & Boots | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect 7,500
Front Disc Brake/Pads, Calipers & Rotors | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect More Frequently
Rear Brake Disc/Pads | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect More Frequently
Steering Gear Box, Linkage & Boots/Lower Arm Ball Joint, Upper Arm Ball Joint | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect More Frequently
Suspension Mounting Bolts | Inspect 15,000 | Inspect Same As Normal
Brake fluid | Inspect 30,000 | Inspect Same As Normal
Coolant | 1st Replace 120,000 or 120 mos. Add’l Replace 30,000 or 24 mos. | Replace Same As Normal
Reduction Gear Fluid | Inspect 37,500 or 30 mos. | Replace 75,000
*Check the engine oil regularly between recommended oil change. Hyundai recommends Quaker State oil. <== LOL :lol: LOL

Those few calls for replacement (something should be done psychically) kind of important and those are awesome figures:
Climate Control Air Filter (for Evaporator and Blower Unit) | Replace 15,000 | Replace More Frequently <= sounds reasonable
Brake fluid | Inspect 30,000 | Inspect Same As Normal <== no need to replace every 2-3 years
Coolant 1st | Replace 120,000 or 120 mos. Add’l Replace 30,000 or 24 mos. | Replace Same As Normal <= Splendid, 10 years of no worries, very unlikely for me to hit 100K earlier
Reduction Gear Fluid | Inspect 37,500 or 30 mos. | Replace 75,000 <= no complaints here, replace only in Severe Usage (good advice anyway)

AC refrigerant is commonly used and available R-134a, no exotic/expensive stuff, check.

The rest is just inspect, lovely.
Last edited by Leaf15 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2040
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hyundai Ioniq EV - Hello there!

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:17 am

Leaf15 wrote: 2019 Ionic EV Limited delivered 120A charging current all the way to 80%.
The Ioniq really is a QC champ. That's pretty impressive. I assume this charger only puts out up to 120A. I wonder what you will get on a much higher capacity station. Any EA stations you can try, which will provide up to 200A?
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

Valdemar
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:03 pm

I was waiting plugged in for a QC on an EVGO ABB dual-nozzler while there was an Ioniq charging on the other plug. The Ioniq glitched causing charging to stop and my car started charging. The owner came out and was not very happy, said it happens a lot to him and on different chargers. Could be an isolated issue but it doesn't inspire confidence.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

Leaf15
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:07 pm

Valdemar wrote:I was waiting plugged in for a QC on an EVGO ABB dual-nozzler while there was an Ioniq charging on the other plug. The Ioniq glitched causing charging to stop and my car started charging. The owner came out and was not very happy, said it happens a lot to him and on different chargers. Could be an isolated issue but it doesn't inspire confidence.
It is because of he does not know about a magic button ("Auto" - between Charge and Charger Timer Off buttons) - once activated it is working like Swiss watch.
Last edited by Leaf15 on Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

Leaf15
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Hyundai Ioniq EV - Hello there!

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:12 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:The Ioniq really is a QC champ. That's pretty impressive. I assume this charger only puts out up to 120A. I wonder what you will get on a much higher capacity station. Any EA stations you can try, which will provide up to 200A?
Thanks for the tip, indeed the EA 350kW charger is only 4 miles away at KoP Mall, figures. PlugShare dropped the ball for second time for me. It is good app, but I found it is not aware of very important chargers locations and sometimes it hurts a little. My pleasant issue with Ionic though - it will take probably a week to empty the battery for me. It is not as easy as on other EVs :lol:.

So the goal for Ionic to get to rated 100 kW charge rate - the current should be ~ 250A at 400V (Max voltage was observed during previous charge sessions)
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

Valdemar
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:34 pm

Leaf15 wrote:
Valdemar wrote:I was waiting plugged in for a QC on an EVGO ABB dual-nozzler while there was an Ioniq charging on the other plug. The Ioniq glitched causing charging to stop and my car started charging. The owner came out and was not very happy, said it happens a lot to him and on different chargers. Could be an isolated issue but it doesn't inspire confidence.
It is because of he does not know about a magic button ("Auto" - between Charge and Charger Timer Off buttons) - once activated it is working like Swiss watch.
Auto what?
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

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