LeftieBiker
Posts: 7180
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:50 pm

I took my first ride today, and it went very well. I had used the Zero app to set the Custom mode as follows: top speed 80MPH, maximum torque: 75%, throttle off regen: 6%, braking regen: 100%.

I started the ride in Eco mode, and man, this isn't your Dad's Eco mode! Aside from a very soft start, useful for loose dirt and most city riding, the bike still accelerates harder than any electric bike I've ridden, and about as hard as my Leaf at low speeds - harder at higher speeds. Needless to say, there is just no comparison with the ZEV 5000, even with the Zero in Eco and the ZEV in, er, "3." I did about 20 miles of country highways in Eco, then on the beginning of the last leg of my 32 mile ride I switched to Custom.

Wheee!!! I've only ridden one or two ICE bikes that would leap forward like that when the throttle is opened at 60MPH, and they had roughly 100HP. I didn't run it all the way to 80 (it was mild but not warm outside, and I'm now old and feeble) but the bike seemed happy to just keep accelerating hard past 75MPH. Those Custom settings seem like the perfect "Sport" mode for public roads, with the actual "Sport" mode (which I didn't use, as I promised myself) best reserved for Special Situations, just like Tesla's "Insane Mode."

Ergonomically, the SR isn't the best bike for me. I have trouble with pain in my arms and hands, and supporting my weight on the bars with my arms isn't fun. However, above 40MPH I noticed that the force of the wind on my body actually relieved the strain on my arms. Only going down hills at low speeds actually hurt much. I'm going to adjust the bars once more, so I'm as upright as possible. The seat is about what I expected: on my fairly short ride it was fine, but on a long ride my butt would be hurting without an extra cushion. Most of the controls work fine, but the turn signal which isn't auto-canceling (despite what one might expect on a $16000 bike) is easy to activate but hard to turn off - it wants to switch from signaling a turn in one direction right to signaling the other way, especially for a rider wearing gloves.

The suspension works very well to absorb harsh bumps and keep the tires planted on the road. Since I only ride fast on smooth roads, though, I'll likely adjust the damping toward softer, for a more comfortable ride over small imperfections in the road.

I started the ride with 100% charge, and a range estimate of 61 miles. I finished it, 32 miles, later with 65% charge and a range estimate of about 55 miles. I didn't reset the efficiency reading, but I think it resets for every ride, and mine was 94.5 watt-hours per mile at the end of my ride. This means that for my riding style and roads, I expect the warm weather range to be between 90 and 100 miles for me. I'm finally starting to believe that it's the 21st Century!


Image
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GRA
Posts: 7451
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:16 pm

Yeah, yeah, but what about the critical question: can you turn the volume up to to '11'? :lol:
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7180
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:22 pm

I can, but I'm going to wait until I'm comfortable with the bike. Then I'll try for "12" at least once.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Evoforce
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:29 am

It doesn't sound good about your possible purchase of a lemon. I hope you get it solved or get satisfaction. It is horrible to spend a lot of money for a dud. What seems to be wrong?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7180
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:28 pm

After 31 miles the bike's master warning light started flickering. I mistook it for the 'motor heat' light but was a few easy blocks from home anyway. I got two codes for "BMS Isolation" and "BMS Isolation Fault." The dealer's so-called Tech was less than helpful, but told me how to reset any inactive errors. I was concerned that hand-washing the bike with about 1 gallon of water and a hand-pumped garden sprayer might have done harm, so I took care to dry it out. I got in a second ride a few days later, after resetting the BMS, but after it ended and I plugged the bike in to charge, I got both the previous errors, plus "BMS Isolation Danger."I unplugged the bike and left it alone. I have sent Zero both data logs, but they haven't responded after 5 days. A friend was able to use an app to parse the logs, and the BMS log is riddled with errors, going back at least to last September.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Evoforce
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:21 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:After 31 miles the bike's master warning light started flickering. I mistook it for the 'motor heat' light but was a few easy blocks from home anyway. I got two codes for "BMS Isolation" and "BMS Isolation Fault." The dealer's so-called Tech was less than helpful, but told me how to reset any inactive errors. I was concerned that hand-washing the bike with about 1 gallon of water and a hand-pumped garden sprayer might have done harm, so I took care to dry it out. I got in a second ride a few days later, after resetting the BMS, but after it ended and I plugged the bike in to charge, I got both the previous errors, plus "BMS Isolation Danger."I unplugged the bike and left it alone. I have sent Zero both data logs, but they haven't responded after 5 days. A friend was able to use an app to parse the logs, and the BMS log is riddled with errors, going back at least to last September.


I'm sure you are exploring all of your options. I'm wondering if the dealer will let you exchange it for another one? I am eyeing your experience with this as I have considered buying one also. Please keep us informed and good luck!
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7180
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:36 pm

The dealer is 3000 miles away. I had tried the dealership "only" 120 miles from me, and I couldn't afford a bike from them - I "only" had $14000 to spend. I'll be looking for either a buyback by the dealer, or a new, fully tested S and a check from Zero. I'm not holding my breath, as Zero has yet to respond to getting the logs 5 days ago, and me contacting them again 3 days ago.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7180
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:06 pm

UPDATE: a full week after emailing Zero the bike and BMS logs, they haven't responded. There is an official Zero owner's forum, but it is moribund. The Electricmotorcycleforum Zero topics are more active, but aside from one member providing a partial decryption of the logs, their main advice is "take it to the dealer"
and (paraphrasing here) 'Stop worrying about it and bothering us.' After finally making them understand that there is no dealer near me, the advice is to just take it to *A* Zero dealer, somewhere, and not to involve Zero myself, but to have the dealer do that. One member finally recommended a dealership I was considering, so I guess I'll be arranging to have the bike transported there, 120 miles away, and then back again however many weeks later it is "fixed." I say "fixed" because from what I'm reading the repairs to defective Zeros seem to take multiple trips to a dealer to completely rectify, as the replacement onboard chargers, for example, often fail again.

My advice at this point is "Never, ever, buy a Zero motorcycle unless you have a well-rated dealership within a few miles of your home." I also strongly suggest that you first contact the dealer and make sure that they will still *be* a Zero dealer for at least the length of your warranty. When I started considering these bikes there was a dealer in my area. No more. Anyway, as soon as this bike is working as it is supposed to work, with no error codes, it will be going up for sale. Let my stupid mistake be a lesson for you.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Evoforce
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:33 am

LeftieBiker wrote:UPDATE: a full week after emailing Zero the bike and BMS logs, they haven't responded. There is an official Zero owner's forum, but it is moribund. The Electricmotorcycleforum Zero topics are more active, but aside from one member providing a partial decryption of the logs, their main advice is "take it to the dealer"
and (paraphrasing here) 'Stop worrying about it and bothering us.' After finally making them understand that there is no dealer near me, the advice is to just take it to *A* Zero dealer, somewhere, and not to involve Zero myself, but to have the dealer do that. One member finally recommended a dealership I was considering, so I guess I'll be arranging to have the bike transported there, 120 miles away, and then back again however many weeks later it is "fixed." I say "fixed" because from what I'm reading the repairs to defective Zeros seem to take multiple trips to a dealer to completely rectify, as the replacement onboard chargers, for example, often fail again.

My advice at this point is "Never, ever, buy a Zero motorcycle unless you have a well-rated dealership within a few miles of your home." I also strongly suggest that you first contact the dealer and make sure that they will still *be* a Zero dealer for at least the length of your warranty. When I started considering these bikes there was a dealer in my area. No more. Anyway, as soon as this bike is working as it is supposed to work, with no error codes, it will be going up for sale. Let my stupid mistake be a lesson for you.


I am sorry to hear it is a bad experience. You must be pretty sure this is common. So you believe that this is not a rare case or lemon?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7180
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The Electric Motorcycle Topic

Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:56 am

There is a known issue, as they say, with onboard charger failures - sometimes the replacement charger fails as well. It appears to be a badly designed, probably Chinese unit that is at fault. There have also been some motor failures. I can't call my bike a "lemon" at the moment, because although I suspect that it has thrown many error codes in the past that were just reset, I don't have enough evidence at the moment to say for sure. There have also been zero (so to speak) attempts to fix whatever's wrong, because I haven't yet located a dealer I know is good. I thought I had found one in New Hampshire, but it turns out they went out of business on 12/31/15. I'm down to one dealer 120 miles away in NY, and another about the same distance away in Connecticut.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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