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evnow
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Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:27 pm

Kia is readying a CUV counterpart to Hyundai's Ioniq. Likely to be available in Hybrid, Plugin Hybrid and BEV forms. If true, this would be the first BEV CUV in the "affordable" category sold in all states.

http://insideevs.com/kia-niro-to-debut- ... n-planned/

In mid February, at the 2016 Chicago Auto Show, Kia will unveil its Niro crossover (teaser images above and to the right).

Niro is a dedicated hybrid model, built on the same platform as the Hyundai IONIQ.

While only the hybrid version of Niro will be on display in Chicago, a plug-in hybrid (and probably even a BEV) version is in the works.


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minispeed
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:02 pm

FYI the concept car:

Image

http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-gallery/kia-niro-concept-photos-and-info-news#4


It's pretty obvious that the production car will be much more tame as usual.

I was very impressed with the new sportage at the Detroit show, I was wishing that would get the BEV treatment. The quality of the interior and the materials and finish were top knotch. I sat in the Tiguan shortly after and my first impression vs the kia is it felt like I had gone from a Porsche SUV to a geo, hard plastic anywhere.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:48 pm

It's pretty obvious that the production car will be much more tame as usual.


Hopefully. It doesn't take much visibility to park a car in a showroom, but you need to be able to see out the windows to drive on the streets. I'm tired of these 'Godzilla-Stomped' concept cars. There is nothing inherently ugly about windows!
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:01 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
It's pretty obvious that the production car will be much more tame as usual.

Hopefully. It doesn't take much visibility to park a car in a showroom, but you need to be able to see out the windows to drive on the streets. I'm tired of these 'Godzilla-Stomped' concept cars. There is nothing inherently ugly about windows!
+1. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012 ... /index.htm

(Full disclosure: Forester owner). AFAIA, the high beltline - low roofline styling motif began with the Chrysler 300. I call this the gangster staff car style, and have never understood how anyone who'd actually driven a car using this style, and tried to see out of it, could find it acceptable. The biggest knock I have on the 1st gen Volt was the awful forward quarter blind spots due to the wide A-pillars. Exiting parking lots must be an adventure, both for the driver and any pedestrians approaching. Haven't tried a 2nd Gen Volt yet.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:47 pm

AFAIA, the high beltline - low roofline styling motif began with the Chrysler 300.


Nope. Would you believe it was Volvo? I give you the 262C Bertone Coupe:

Image
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minispeed
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:35 am

GRA wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
It's pretty obvious that the production car will be much more tame as usual.

Hopefully. It doesn't take much visibility to park a car in a showroom, but you need to be able to see out the windows to drive on the streets. I'm tired of these 'Godzilla-Stomped' concept cars. There is nothing inherently ugly about windows!
+1. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012 ... /index.htm

(Full disclosure: Forester owner). AFAIA, the high beltline - low roofline styling motif began with the Chrysler 300. I call this the gangster staff car style, and have never understood how anyone who'd actually driven a car using this style, and tried to see out of it, could find it acceptable. The biggest knock I have on the 1st gen Volt was the awful forward quarter blind spots due to the wide A-pillars. Exiting parking lots must be an adventure, both for the driver and any pedestrians approaching. Haven't tried a 2nd Gen Volt yet.



It's not just there for styling. Part of it has to do with safety and aerodynamics. Doors have been getting bigger, thicker and higher so that they can withstand side impacts better. A pillars have done the same for roll overs. The Volvo probably wasn't designed like that for looks as much as it was probably a compromise. It looks like a 240 based car and the door probably couldn't be changed. I read an interview about the volt that said the small windows and the blacked out trick to make them look bigger were a result of being based on the cruze and having those dimensions dictated to them by the way the platform was engineered for crash tests and as a result of lowering the roof for better aerodynamics they had windows that were too small.

On the aerodynamic front as the rear of cars is getting higher for better aero and fuel economy, the windshields are moving forward with more rake, then back to safety hoods are getting higher to pass pedestrian collision tests (don't think they have them in North America but for any model also sold in the EU they need space between an engine block and the hood). All this means that to have lines that compliment the other area of the car the doors are higher and the window doesn't go as low.

The forester has a huge advantage with the boxer engine they can have a hood that meets pedestrian impact laws that meets the A pillar much lower. They can then also have a high for car but low for CUV door to meet side impact requirements and give you lots of glass. It's also not the best in aerodynamics as it's a CUV (although it is as good as most other CUVs in it's class).

By the way on my leaf I've had a couple of incidents of mystery pedestrians suddenly appear as I turn a few degrees. Blind spots like that can be very unique for each driver for where they sit. My wife screams at me and complains that I must not be paying attention because it doesn't ever happen with her. When I'm at a standard left turn lane waiting with 2 lanes of oncoming traffic the blind spot for me is right where the side walk meets the cross walk and just tall enough for a person to be in.
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GRA
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:47 am

minispeed wrote:
GRA wrote:<snip>
(Full disclosure: Forester owner). AFAIA, the high beltline - low roofline styling motif began with the Chrysler 300. I call this the gangster staff car style, and have never understood how anyone who'd actually driven a car using this style, and tried to see out of it, could find it acceptable. The biggest knock I have on the 1st gen Volt was the awful forward quarter blind spots due to the wide A-pillars. Exiting parking lots must be an adventure, both for the driver and any pedestrians approaching. Haven't tried a 2nd Gen Volt yet.

It's not just there for styling. Part of it has to do with safety and aerodynamics. Doors have been getting bigger, thicker and higher so that they can withstand side impacts better. A pillars have done the same for roll overs. The Volvo probably wasn't designed like that for looks as much as it was probably a compromise. It looks like a 240 based car and the door probably couldn't be changed. I read an interview about the volt that said the small windows and the blacked out trick to make them look bigger were a result of being based on the cruze and having those dimensions dictated to them by the way the platform was engineered for crash tests and as a result of lowering the roof for better aerodynamics they had windows that were too small.

I'm aware of the new rollover requirements making A-pillars thicker, although the windshield rake seems to a have a lot to do with that (see below).
minispeed wrote:On the aerodynamic front as the rear of cars is getting higher for better aero and fuel economy, the windshields are moving forward with more rake, then back to safety hoods are getting higher to pass pedestrian collision tests (don't think they have them in North America but for any model also sold in the EU they need space between an engine block and the hood). All this means that to have lines that compliment the other area of the car the doors are higher and the window doesn't go as low.

The forester has a huge advantage with the boxer engine they can have a hood that meets pedestrian impact laws that meets the A pillar much lower. They can then also have a high for car but low for CUV door to meet side impact requirements and give you lots of glass. It's also not the best in aerodynamics as it's a CUV (although it is as good as most other CUVs in it's class).

I think the Cd due to a low rake is as much due to Subie owners' priorities as it is to the Boxer engine. The average Subie owner, myself included, places a much higher priority on how the car works from the inside than how it looks from the outside, and as we are often outdoorsy, we want to be able to look around. We also tend to be safety conscious, as the cars are often bought by people who do a lot of driving in snow, and we're well aware of how easy it is to get in an accident in such conditions. Subaru is very aware of their customer demographic, so they know they can afford to trade some Cd via a more upright windshield (and consequently a thinner A-pillar), if it improves sightlines. And they routinely get the highest crash ratings.

minispeed wrote:By the way on my leaf I've had a couple of incidents of mystery pedestrians suddenly appear as I turn a few degrees. Blind spots like that can be very unique for each driver for where they sit. My wife screams at me and complains that I must not be paying attention because it doesn't ever happen with her. When I'm at a standard left turn lane waiting with 2 lanes of oncoming traffic the blind spot for me is right where the side walk meets the cross walk and just tall enough for a person to be in.

The only real problem I had with my Forester was the blind spot to the right front when exiting a driveway nose down; I had to constantly bob my head around the mirror like a turkey in order to to see pedestrians or approaching cars. This was due to a combination of my height and the standard (on the XS trim) auto-dimming mirror with compass.

I knew it bugged me when I bought the car, but took the car home just to see if I could adjust to it. Within a day or two I realized that I wasn't willing to put up with it (I buy a car for the long haul; my Forester turned 13 this month, and barring an accident I expect to keep it for years yet). I'd sat in two Foresters parked side-by-side nose down at the dealer, one with the standard manual mirror without compass, and the other with auto-dimming and compass. The auto-dimming one had a frame that extended around 1/2 - 3/4 inches lower than the manual mirror (for the compass readout and sensors), just enough to block my sightline to the right front. The manual mirror didn't have this issue. I had them swap my mirror for a manual one (they did it at no charge to me, and got an expensive replacement part for their stock). I've never missed the auto-dimming feature (is it really that onerous for people to flip the lever?), and while the compass would have been a nice to have on one or two occasions, I've managed just fine without it.

I suspect over the years the swap has probably saved more than a few pedestrians from close calls if not injuries, and it sure as hell has reduced my irritation level. It's fair to say that I'm more attuned to ergonomics than most, and less willing to put up with minor issues that I know will be long term irritants.

In the near future, even if cars don't become completely autonomous, I expect we'll have unobstructed 360 deg. vision via cameras and (perhaps) video glasses. If it's good enough for the F-35, it's good enough for me!
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:43 am

Will be at the Chicago Auto Show ...

Image

Does look kind of 'tame' and initially 'just' a hybrid but not a bad start; a 50 MPG CUV; not bad

http://autoweek.com/article/chicago-auto-show/2017-kia-niro-electrifies-chicago#ixzz3zy6DGOuF

As I'm planning to go this weekend to the Chicago Auto Show should get a better idea of its scale (I'm sure its bigger than Kia Soul) but how big say compared to other compact SUV's that have just come out (have seen the latest Honda, Mazda and even an Audi Q3 recently on the road). Not sure how something this compact can carry a decent size battery pack, but again if it could hit close to the 30 miles 'pure' EV range could be a contender
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:32 pm

Sounds like the Niro will be introduced on the biggest stage of American TV.......the Superbowl! I saw a preview on one of the morning talk shows and it starred Melissa McCarthy?? It was pretty funny, kind of poking fun at the greenies while being basically a very green car :lol:
I'm kind of interested in the PHEV version thats supposed to arrive in September or better yet the BEV version where they are talking about early '18.....
The Niro is based on the Hyundai Ioniq but personally I like the styling on the Niro much better, it's billed as a compact crossover SUV as opposed to the Ioniq's hatchback styling. I also really like the Niro doesn't SCREAM green or look wacky like the Prius Prime which I personally think, along with similarly syled vehicles are UGLY as sin!

A couple quotes from Car and Drivers review of the hybrid:
"starts at $23,785
Called an “un-hybrid,” the Niro combines a hybrid powertrain with a subcompact crossover for the best of both worlds. The interior is roomy, with an elevated seating position for easy entry/exit and a clear view of the road ahead. A gas engine pairs with an electric motor for an output of 139 hp; fuel economy is rated at up to 52 mpg city."

"The latest Toyota Prius has embraced “Space Oddity” styling, but that doesn’t appear to be spurring sales of that hybrid icon. The new Kia Niro, on the other hand, looks like the kind of vehicle that can inspire Americans to trade in their compact or mid-size sedans. The Niro is an approachable and practical, crossover-like hatchback—one that just happens to have a hybrid powertrain and EPA city ratings of up to 52 mpg. Refreshingly straightforward, it has no unfortunate packaging concessions, no bizarre styling, and no weird controls that are different just for the sake of being different (we’re looking at you, Prius shifter)."

"The Niro is built on a dedicated compact hybrid-vehicle platform shared with the Hyundai Ioniq. However, while the Ioniq sticks with a Prius-like Kamm-back profile designed to squeeze the last tenth of a mile out of every gallon of gasoline, the Niro trades off some aerodynamic efficiency for greater passenger and cargo space. For the U.S. market especially, we think Kia made a smart choice. From across the parking lot, the Niro looks like a crossover SUV. Step closer, and it’s clearly lower and more wagonlike."

"It’s a slightly higher-riding alternative to the Toyota Corolla iM or the Ford Focus hatchback, yet it’s lower and more squat than many small crossovers such as the Chevrolet Trax, Honda HR-V, Mitsubishi Outlander Sport, or Fiat 500X. Seat height is about an inch and a half higher than that of a typical compact sedan, according to Kia, and slightly lower than the Soul’s—perfect for easy entry and exit. There’s enough headroom and legroom in back for tall adults, and the rear seatbacks flip forward, creating a flat cargo floor."

"The Niro, like Kia’s Optima hybrid, has a four-cylinder engine and a single AC electric motor/generator integrated within a six-speed automatic transaxle. But much is different about both the engine and the gearbox. The engine is a new, Atkinson-cycle 1.6-liter four-cylinder with exhaust-heat recovery and dual cooling circuits for quickly warming up the cylinder head. It makes 104 horsepower and 109 lb-ft of torque, and Kia claims it operates with 40 percent thermal efficiency, a lofty mark on that scale. The six-speed is a dual-clutch unit, with two hydraulically actuated multiplate dry clutches finessing launches and shifts. The combined system output to the front wheels is 139 horsepower and 195 lb-ft of torque. In case you missed any previous hints that this is not a rugged SUV, note that all-wheel drive is missing from the lineup, and there are no plans to add it."

"It all adds up to exemplary fuel-economy ratings: 52 mpg city and 49 mpg highway for the miserly FE version, 51/46 mpg for the LX and EX models at the heart of the lineup, and 46/40 mpg for the Touring models we drove. "

"As with the Hyundai Ioniq, this hybrid version is only one iteration of Kia’s green machine. A plug-in-hybrid Niro is due to arrive next September, and an all-electric variant is expected to complete the family, likely in early 2018.
In the meantime, those who choose a Niro because it is the size and shape they want probably will find a lot of value in this model’s generally pleasant driving experience and roomy interior—not to mention a lot more monetary value should gas prices rise."


or full review: http://www.caranddriver.com/kia/niro

While not a large vehicle I like the fact that it sounds like it's somewhat roomy and again isn't a hatchback or doesn't have the oddball look of most all other PHEV or BEVs, I also like the price point although I'm sure the PHEV or BEV will be more than the $23K+ of the hybrid version but still heres hoping it will be closer to $30k than $40k :)
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:38 pm

Via ABG:
2018 Kia Niro Plug-in Hybrid revealed, boasts 26 miles of electric range
Has same cargo space as regular Niro, gets 105 MPGe
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/30/2018-kia-niro-plug-in-hybrid-phev-26-miles-electric-range/

. . . When the all-electric range is exhausted, it'll get 48 mpg city, 44 mpg highway and 46 mpg combined. That's actually a bit worse than the regular Niro (51 city/46 highway/49 combined), though that difference isn't as great it might seem given actual gas burned and the all-electric range. . . .

This is all achieved by the addition of a 8.9-kWh lithium-polymer battery pack and a 60-horsepower (44.5-kw) electric motor. This compares to the regular Niro Hybrid's 1.56-kWh battery pack and 43-hp motor.

Despite its greater capacity, the battery doesn't take up any extra interior space, still fitting under the back seat and cargo area. It can be recharged in approximately 2.5 hours using a 240V charger, or in less than 9 hours using a regular household 120V outlet. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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