LeftieBiker
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:11 pm

It's not just there for styling. Part of it has to do with safety and aerodynamics. Doors have been getting bigger, thicker and higher so that they can withstand side impacts better. A pillars have done the same for roll overs. The Volvo probably wasn't designed like that for looks as much as it was probably a compromise. It looks like a 240 based car and the door probably couldn't be changed. I read an interview about the volt that said the small windows and the blacked out trick to make them look bigger were a result of being based on the cruze and having those dimensions dictated to them by the way the platform was engineered for crash tests and as a result of lowering the roof for better aerodynamics they had windows that were too small.


Sorry, but no. The Volvo 262C was a Bertone exercise in styling, and had nothing whatsoever to do with safety. The other 260 series cars had normal window height just like the 240 series whose platform they shared. And anything GM says about the Volt concept car now is BS: it was a Camaro concept car with a golf cart drivetrain (literally, not figuratively) slapped into it. GM never planned to produce the Volt, and just used parts they already had on hand. Probably including a used golf cart, since it repeatedly broke down.

Getting back on topic: I wonder if Hyundai/Kia have improved the electric power steering to give it some feel...
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Via IEVS:
Kia Niro PHEV Gets Official EPA Ratings – ~28 Miles On Electric In City, 46 MPG
https://insideevs.com/kia-niro-phev-gets-official-epa-ratings/

. . . The Kia Niro PHEV has been officially rated by the EPA at 26 miles of electric range combined and 46 MPG. Total range is some 560 miles.

The breakdown for electric range is as follows:

City: 27.65 miles
Highway: 24.02 miles
Combined: 26 miles
The PHEV composite MPGe figures seen below are not what you’ll see on the window sticker. The window sticker will show a combined MPGe figure of 105. . . .

Moving on to fuel economy, here’s how those numbers break out:

48 MPG city
44 MPG highway
46 MPG combined . . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:47 pm

Via GCR:
2018 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid first drive review
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114356_2018-kia-niro-plug-in-hybrid-first-drive

No AWD available. The electric motor is just 60hp, so the gas engine is likely to be switched on a lot when climbing or accelerating, but should be fine for ambling around town or not-too-fast freeway cruising on the flat. Cargo space is okay (photo with seats folded), and while folding the rear seats doesn't give a flat cargo floor, the slope is small (looks about the same as my Forester, which I've often slept in) and the base is flush with the load floor. The height looks to be shallow as the pack is under the cargo floor. It's a nice looking, small wagon/hatchback, priced from $29k to $35k according to Kia. My impression is that it needs more motor for the U.S. market, and we'll see on the cargo height.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:35 pm

Via IEVS:
2018 Kia Niro Plug-In Priced From $28,840, Build Yours Today
https://insideevs.com/kia-niro-phev-priced-28840/

The all-new Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid will start at $27,900, according to the automaker’s website.

Kia just released the first financing and lease deals for the new Niro Plug-In. The leasing info also reveals the vehicle’s starting price: $28,840 (including destination). . . .

The new Kia Niro Plug-In starts at $28,840 according to CarsDirect. That price represents a steep $4,660 increase over the standard Niro, which starts at $24,180 (including $940 destination). But even though the Niro may be more expensive on the surface, it’s actually cheaper than some of its closest competitors when digging into lease deals.

The base Niro LX Plug-In can be had for $259 per month for 36 months with $1,999 due at signing when factoring in the $4,543 Federal tax credit and allowance of 12,000 miles per year. The Toyota Prius, meanwhile, comes in at $269 per month with the same terms and amount due at signing. The Prius Prime Plus is even more expensive at $349 per month. . . .

The Kia Niro PHEV will arrive at dealerships early in 2018, and will be available in three different trim levels LX, EX, and EX Premium.

Turns out you can build your own Kia Niro PHEV right now. Here’s a link to the configurator. Have at it.
https://www.kia.com/us/en/build/niro-plug-in-hybrid/2018/trims?trim=2&model=765

The EX and EX Premium have base MSRPs of $31,500 and $34,500 respectively, plus the $940 dest. The 8.9 kWh pack weighs 258 lb. (117 kg.), for a pack specific energy of 76 Wh/kg (note, PHEV pack, so not a pure energy battery). Max. power output is 59 kW, for a pack specific power of 504W/kg.

AEB/Lane keeping/Smart cruise control (ACC?) and a rear camera are STANDARD on all trim levels, blindspot detection/Lane Change assist/Rear Cross-traffic alert on the EX/Premium. Cloth seats for the LX, cloth/leather for the EX, leather for the Premium. If you want heated front seats you need to go for the EX or Premium, and a heated steering wheel is only available on the Premium (i.e. only with leather seats). Heated, power folding mirrors with turn signal indicators on the EX/Premium. 10-way power seats on EX/Premium, w/memory on the Premium. LED headlights on the Premium.

Most of the remaining differences between the LX and EX/Premium are appearance, infotainment or convenience, although the Premium does come with a 110V inverter for those tailgate parties or maybe power outages; not sure what its max. power rating is. I could live with either the LX or EX, but would probably opt for the EX to get the heated seats and mirrors (with the cargo cover standard instead of having to pay extra for it on the LX), although I could do without the power seats. None offer AWD, the biggest negative for the U.S. market (and me), and combined HP is only 139 for a car that has a curb weight around 3,400 lb, so performance is unlikely to be exciting.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

jjeff
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:18 pm

^^^
This is where Nissan sure got it right! Not only heated seats(all around! at least on my base '13S) but a heated steering wheel, all on the base model!
Personally, I'd rather have a heated steering wheel than seats but would like both, but I DON'T want leather :x
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edatoakrun
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:47 pm

Teaser images here:

Concept for Kia Niro EV all-electric wagon to appear at CES

We've long known that the Kia Niro wagon would get an all-electric version to accompany the 2017 Niro Hybrid and the just-launched 2018 Niro Plug-In Hybrid.

The battery-electric Niro will fill out the suite of six cars sharing the same underpinnings, with the others being the same three versions of the Hyundai Ioniq hatchback, the Niro's sibling-under-the-skin.

On Thursday, Kia announced it would show a "new all-electric concept car" at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas on January 8.

While the Niro name isn't mentioned anywhere in Kia's announcement, the shape in the shadowy teaser shots makes the vehicle clear.

Also not mentioned are any specifications or capacities for the future production version of the all-electric Niro.

Kia said only that the concept will show off a "highly efficient battery-electric powertrain."...

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... ear-at-ces

Not sure how seriously to take the battery capacity report below...
NIRO EV (2018)

CES study shows E-SUV


...Kia offers so far the Niro only as a hybrid and as a plug-in hybrid, with the Niro EV complement the Koreans 2018 the series by a purely electric model. The SUV will be offered in two power levels with 40 kWh and 65 kWh (about 380 kilometers or around 500 kilometers)...

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/new ... 54800.html
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GRA
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:21 pm

Via ABG:
2018 Kia Niro PHEV First Drive Review | Embracing the new normal
Low-key PHEV is another veiled threat to Prius loyalists.
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/01/02/2018-kia-niro-phev-first-drive-review-embracing-the-new-normal/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9099
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:44 pm

Via IEVS:
Kia Niro PHEV Test Drive Review
https://insideevs.com/kia-niro-phev-test-drive-review/

As I guessed upthread, the Niro could use a more powerful, smoother, quieter ICE:
. . . Urban motoring on electric power is nice and quiet, with almost zero noise coming from the drivetrain. When the gasoline engine is running, you’ll know it: the 1.6-liter is gruff and loud, especially under hard acceleration or highway cruising. The Niro’s cabin also admits more road and wind noise than the segment average.

Zippy off the line, thanks to the swell of low-end torque from its electric motor, the Niro’s acceleration diminishes notably above urban speeds. Response from the accelerator pedal is direct and responsive, but with just 139 horsepower combined, the car is not especially brisk for highway passing. On the other hand, its very car-like driving experience is a welcome change from some other plug-ins. The steering has a solid heft to it, and the brake pedal is remarkably firm and consistent whether the regenerative or friction brakes are at work. The ride is a little choppy over broken pavement and the Niro can wander a little on longer highway drives, though. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9099
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Thu May 17, 2018 5:01 pm

One more first drive review for the PHEV, this time from C&D (my enthusiast mag of choice):
2018 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid
A PHEV that trails the market leader.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-kia-niro-plug-in-hybrid-test-review

. . . The low level of grip from the eco-focused Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires (0.80 g on the skidpad) reveals itself only during spirited attacks on highway on-ramps and the like, although the vague brake-pedal feel is a common—and still discouraging—issue for most hybrids. Notably, different levels of selectable regenerative braking aren’t offered as they are in many rivals.

The Niro PHEV also suffers from some of the same drivetrain-integration issues that bedevil the conventional hybrid. When the car is running in Hybrid mode and the battery enters its charge-sustaining mode, we noticed some surging and hiccups as the vehicle attempts to blend power from the gas engine and the electric motor. The Niro’s six-speed dual-clutch automatic at least does its job well, and it avoids the high-rpm droning often present in hybrids that use continuously variable automatic transmissions.

Running in EV mode with the battery topped off eliminates these refinement issues, but it comes with a big caveat: It’s hard to keep the engine off. Requests for anything beyond mild acceleration will cause the engine to fire up. More annoying is the fact that, because the Kia lacks a resistive heating system like that in the Chevrolet Volt or a heat-pump system like the Toyota Prius Prime’s, if the Niro’s climate control is on, the engine is often running. That might not be an issue in temperate California climes, but during our winter stint with the Niro, emissions-free driving was an untenably cold proposition.

As a result, we averaged just 39 MPGe, well below the EPA’s 46-mpg combined estimate for hybrid driving. Even so, it beat our average of 35 mpg for the Niro hybrid Touring, and the plug-in also achieved 40 mpg in our 75-mph real-world highway test, 1 mpg better than the hybrid. But a Prius Prime Premium achieved 50 MPGe overall in our care and 49 mpg on our highway test. . . .

Note: C&D editors are leadfeet like most writers for auto enthusiast mags, so you can expect to do better in 'normal' driving (unless you normally drive like a C&D editor).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9099
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid (and BEV ?) CUV

Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:49 pm

Via ABG:
2018 Kia Niro PHEV Review | More MPG than an SUV, less weird than a hybrid
Plug-in hybrid crossover should strike a just-right balance for many
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/18/2018-kia-niro-phev-review-quick-spin-plug-in-hybrid/

. . . Compared to a typical, disconnected-feeling PHEV throttle, the Niro PHEV's throttle is perfectly normal, leaving Sport to those moments when you want a little extra zest from your plug-in hybrid (such a moment never seemed to arise). One can assume this is due to the larger battery that allows for greater electric input even when the plug-in battery range is depleted. When filled to the brim, it offers an EPA-estimated all-electric range of 26 miles, a figure I bettered by 1 mile during my evaluation route. That's nearly half of what you can get out of a Chevy Volt or Honda Clarity PHEV, but is similar to the Toyota Prius Prime and Ioniq PHEV. . . .

Specifically, I'd wager it would be an attractive choice for urban-dwelling young couples who only have one car and like getting out of town for the weekend. You know, the ones every little SUV is marketed to. It may not satisfy the more rugged needs of certain crossover buyers (it's front-drive only and ground clearance stands at a modest 6.3 inches), but it maintains most of the benefits the majority of buyers actually care about.

That includes cargo capacity. I managed to fit two midsize check-in suitcases and two carry-on rolling suitcases into the cargo area with some room to spare for a duffle bag. That matches the Subaru Crosstrek and betters the Hyundai Kona, which left two of those suitcases behind. On paper, the Niro's 19.4 cubic feet behind the back seat is actually closer to the Kona, but by being boxier, it's ultimately more functional. Plus, with its traditional hatch and long, flat roof, the Niro is better suited to mounting bike racks or roof boxes than one of those slug-shaped cars.

In terms of passenger space, a pair of 6-footers should be able to fit front and back. Headroom is plentiful. There should also be enough space for a rear-facing child seat to fit on one side, but don't quote me there, I was eyeballing it. So, although exceedingly large strollers and other baby-supporting accoutrement may overwhelm the Niro, I think those urban-dwelling young couples could manage to lug around a child for a little while. And hopefully Kia has cooked up a Sorento PHEV by the time kid No. 2 arrives.

As for the price, the PHEV starts at $28,840, including destination, and tops out at $35,440 for the loaded EX Premium — there are no options. That compares to $24,280 for a base Niro and $32,940 for a top-of-the-line Touring, but those aren't eligible for the $4,543 federal tax credit you'd get with the PHEV. Do the math, and that either cancels out the PHEV's price premium or actually puts you in the green, and that's before any state-level rebates that might be out there. Translation: The PHEV is not only cheaper to run but probably cheaper to buy too.

Now, the engine is a little louder and gruffer when it finally comes to life, and the overall driving experience is best described as "indifferent." Those hardly seem like grave concerns given the bar set by both plug-in hybrids and subcompact SUVs, but it is something to consider if there's room for only one car in your garage. Something zestier (Ioniq) or refined (Clarity) could be appreciated . . ..
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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