EV or H2 Farm Tractor

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TonyWilliams

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
10,107
Location
Vista, California USA
My cousin runs an organic farm, and I would like to find a way for him to do that without diesel fuel.

His immediate need would be a for a farm tractor power plant to deliver 260hp at the drawbar, or about 300hp at the "crankshaft".... continuously.

The tractor weighs 30,000 pounds.

Please don't sidetrack the conversation with other methods outside of using this tractor. No, he's not going to use a smaller tractor, or a horse team, etc. Even "no till" requires the seeds to get in the ground.

He has access to almost unlimited electrical power.

Discuss.

1) My first suggestion is two sets of 300kWh of batteries, that are swapped every hour in the field, then recharged at 1C.
 
If the tractor operates over the field in some well defined pattern could there be some retractable/moving cable mechanism? IOW a long extension cord :)

I've seen huge electrically powered excavation shovels in mining operations that are fed by cables. Obviously the shovels don't move around as much as a farm tractor, but they do move. Maybe there is some cabling system to be invented.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
If the tractor operates over the field in some well defined pattern could there be some retractable/moving cable mechanism? IOW a long extension cord :)

I've seen huge electrically powered excavation shovels in mining operations that are fed by cables. Obviously the shovels don't move around as much as a farm tractor, but they do move. Maybe there is some cabling system to be invented.

done with water all the time and if comparing the cost? TWO 300 kwh battery packs would be pretty spendy. Personally I am shocked you would think that is the hourly need. are you sure about your figures?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
If the tractor operates over the field in some well defined pattern could there be some retractable/moving cable mechanism? IOW a long extension cord :)

I've seen huge electrically powered excavation shovels in mining operations that are fed by cables. Obviously the shovels don't move around as much as a farm tractor, but they do move. Maybe there is some cabling system to be invented.

yeah I know someone who runs one of those and it a diesel powered electric shovel much like a train so not electric. what he does is spend 2-3 years essentially creating lakefront property while excavating sand and gravel. this is part of the requirement for all similar types of operation in WA State is land reclamation. Eventually the shovel will start to float (its about 200 yards long) and the lake will be complete. It will be towed to shore and disassembled piece by piece and transported to the next location over a 4-6 month period where it will begin its new lake. The previous spot will then be developed into a new housing development surrounding the man made lake by a subsidiary of the sand and gravel company.

They have created 6 or 7 lakes?? Now most of these places are remote and the power needed is not generally available or more likely too expensive which is why diesel is used. Now if the farm has a different situation it could be done but keep in mind; a long "extension" cord of that capability might be a logistical challenge that is not workable... how many electric implements would you need just to manage something that would weigh more than a little?
 
DaveinOlyWA I think the quote/reference got a little messed up in your post.

No, these mining shovels are definitely electric, not diesel electric

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_shovel

a bucket-equipped machine, usually electrically powered, used for digging and loading earth or fragmented rock and for mineral extraction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDjZ8EBlP10

The haul trucks are diesel of course.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
http://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=139

Not the tractor itself, but it will be a driver for more electric implements.

Again, we're not looking to change all the farm implements, which currently are hydraulic powered. So, the tractor would retain its hydraulic pumps, but obviously they need to be powered by an AC motor.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Every hour in the field? So, someone is always shuttling and charging? How long to swap? How far afield? With transit time, enough time left to recharge?

I think the shuttling vehicle needs to be autonomous, but for a demonstration somebody would need to do that.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
If the tractor operates over the field in some well defined pattern could there be some retractable/moving cable mechanism? IOW a long extension cord :)

I've seen huge electrically powered excavation shovels in mining operations that are fed by cables. Obviously the shovels don't move around as much as a farm tractor, but they do move. Maybe there is some cabling system to be invented.

done with water all the time and if comparing the cost? TWO 300 kwh battery packs would be pretty spendy. Personally I am shocked you would think that is the hourly need. are you sure about your figures?

As I discussed in the first post, the requirement is for 260hp from the drawbar, or about 300 hp on the motor. The conversion to kW is 0.75, so:

300hp * 0.75 = 225kW

For one hour of field work, it will burn 225kWh. Yes, a 300kWh battery is appropriate.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
DaveinOlyWA I think the quote/reference got a little messed up in your post.

No, these mining shovels are definitely electric, not diesel electric

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_shovel

a bucket-equipped machine, usually electrically powered, used for digging and loading earth or fragmented rock and for mineral extraction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDjZ8EBlP10

The haul trucks are diesel of course.

oooh ok. yeah, didn't know you were talking about baby shovels. the guy I know works on one that has a boom with several dozen 10 yard? scoops on a conveyor setup. the machine is probably 50-60 feet wide but at least 200-300 yards long. it does not roll around, it walks
 
TonyWilliams said:
My cousin runs an organic farm, and I would like to find a way for him to do that without diesel fuel.

His immediate need would be a for a farm tractor power plant to deliver 260hp at the drawbar, or about 300hp at the "crankshaft".... continuously.

The tractor weighs 30,000 pounds.

Please don't sidetrack the conversation with other methods outside of using this tractor. No, he's not going to use a smaller tractor, or a horse team, etc. Even "no till" requires the seeds to get in the ground.

He has access to almost unlimited electrical power.

Discuss.

1) My first suggestion is two sets of 300kWh of batteries, that are swapped every hour in the field, then recharged at 1C.
Wouldn't using bio-diesel in the tractor be a much easier and cheaper solution, rather than something way out ahead of the tech like this, that is bound to be ungodly expensive and not cost-effective for anything less than a major industrial/agricultural site (mine etc.)? Other than that, I suppose you could contact some of the companies supplying battery packs or fuel cells for buses.
 
Daveinoly not sure what you mean by babies I think these things are enormous

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Spade

but I know it's getting OT.

So why not overhead wires over the field? Or for that matter if it's farmed in a circle could the tractor be attached by a cable to a pole in the center of the field. That would minimize the slack payout/take-up since most of the tractor's movement would be at a fixed distance from the center. (You can applaud now :) )
 
GRA said:
T) Wouldn't using bio-diesel in the tractor be a much easier and cheaper solution said:
Sure, if biodiesel is carbon and pollution free, it sounds great. I'm not confident that would have the same energy density... it has to have the same power, or it can't pull the existing implements.

This idea is at the general concept phase, so I'm confident some bus manufacturer doesn't want to hear my drivel.

I'm surprised that nobody suggested a 225kW fuel cell. I'll bet THAT is expensive!!! EDIT: a Bloom 200kW fuel cell weighs 19 TONS (more than the tractor)
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Daveinoly not sure what you mean by babies I think these things are enormous

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Spade

but I know it's getting OT.

So why not overhead wires over the field? Or for that matter if it's farmed in a circle could the tractor be attached by a cable to a pole in the center of the field. That would minimize the slack payout/take-up since most of the tractor's movement would be at a fixed distance from the center. (You can applaud now :) )

Can't do round fields everywhere (but the ones that are on center pivot irrigation could).

The overhead line was my first suggestion, but all that cable would be grossly expensive.
 
TonyWilliams said:
GRA said:
T) Wouldn't using bio-diesel in the tractor be a much easier and cheaper solution said:
Sure, if biodiesel is carbon and pollution free, it sounds great. I'm not confident that would have the same energy density... it has to have the same power, or it can't pull the existing implements.

This idea is at the general concept phase, so I'm confident some bus manufacturer doesn't want to hear my drivel.

I'm surprised that nobody suggested a 225kW fuel cell. I'll bet THAT is expensive!!!
See suggestion above about contacting the companies making battery packs or fuel cell stacks for buses. 225 kW is probably about the right range for them, not that I'm suggesting either for the reasons already given. As to bio-diesel, net-zero carbon bio-diesel should be findable, but emissions-free, no, although most emissions other than NOx will decrease - see http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/diesels_emissions.html. However, ii should be a drop-in for the tractor, if they're using diesel now.
 
A ski resort I frequent has a chairlift with heated seats... of course there is no power on the ropeway, there are contacts on the grips to which power is applied as the chairs pass through the terminals.
Perhaps something similar could be done with a high power connection on a fence along one edge of the field where a giant capacitor in the tractor is charged each time it comes to the end of the row and turns around.
Or how about wireless charging/power transmission with giant charging pads under the soil.
OK idea #3 (for this post) since you're in a field and you have the luxury of space, how about having the tractor tow a giant trailer with several hundred sq feet of solar panels.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
OK idea #3 (for this post) since you're in a field and you have the luxury of space, how about having the tractor tow a giant trailer with several hundred sq feet of solar panels.

Well, I don't think that will be practical:

1) how does it go from field to field?

2) what if the sun isn't shining?

3) what if the farmer is working at night?
 
GRA said:
TonyWilliams said:
GRA said:
T) Wouldn't using bio-diesel in the tractor be a much easier and cheaper solution said:
Sure, if biodiesel is carbon and pollution free, it sounds great. I'm not confident that would have the same energy density... it has to have the same power, or it can't pull the existing implements.

This idea is at the general concept phase, so I'm confident some bus manufacturer doesn't want to hear my drivel.

I'm surprised that nobody suggested a 225kW fuel cell. I'll bet THAT is expensive!!!
See suggestion above about contacting the companies making battery packs or fuel cell stacks for buses. 225 kW is probably about the right range for them, not that I'm suggesting either for the reasons already given. As to bio-diesel, net-zero carbon bio-diesel should be findable, but emissions-free, no, although most emissions other than NOx will decrease - see http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/diesels_emissions.html. However, ii should be a drop-in for the tractor, if they're using diesel now.

I'm not doing a hybrid or other compromise for expediency.

There are lots of places to make battery packs... that's really easy.

There aren't many H2 stacks that are both compact and capable of 225kW. Without a doubt, the hydrogen method might be orders of magnitude more expensive with one gain: fast refueling.

Main drawbacks of a H2 -vs- EV farm tractor:

1) no available infrastructure -vs- "ubiquitous" electricity right on the farm

2) hardware cost

3) "rare" H2 equipment -vs- somewhat easy to get EV stuff

4) while an H2 setup is likely significantly lighter, the tractor can easily handle the weight (farmers typically add "ballast" in the tires and on the tractor)... weight helps traction.
 
Tony , How much diesel fuel does the tractor burn an hour now? 300 HP is a lot of power. I am sure you have looked at the drive train that Wright speed makes for a place to start. The PTO is easy and can be bought off the self now. what to put as the motor with like a 1000 pound feet of torque?
 
Back
Top